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I wish D&D could have been more heroic
- Thread starter Edena_of_Neith
- Start date
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
It rather depends. I've seen cowardly characters die because of their first instinct was self-preservation. And I've seen a player design a supposedly unkillable monk/wizard who would have probably gotten himself killed very quickly (because he wasn't good at anything except not dying--and he wasn't as good at that as he thought) if he hadn't had to leave the group first.
I've also had heroic characters who'll charge when outnumbered by higher level bad guys and in single digit hit points survive past 6th level.
There's no guarantee that the cowardly character will live longer--there's only a guarantee that he'll be a coward.
I've also had heroic characters who'll charge when outnumbered by higher level bad guys and in single digit hit points survive past 6th level.
There's no guarantee that the cowardly character will live longer--there's only a guarantee that he'll be a coward.
Voneth said:Yeah they can, but I bet the coward lives longer.
Reprisal
First Post
Welcome Back!
Hey Edena,
Another excellent post on your part.
To be honest, I've not much to say because it seems to have been said before I even got here.
So, I'll keep it short.
I agree with whomever said that heroism is an issue of player and character, rather than system, but at the same time, I don't believe that this was truly what Edena meant. Simply using the term "D&D" can mean a myriad of things now... but that's neither here nor there.
To me, heroism is not the act in and of itself, but rather the intention behind that act. Why someone chooses to do something is perhaps more important than the decision to do it, or failing that, the act itself.
Does that even make sense?
- Rep.
Hey Edena,
Another excellent post on your part.
To be honest, I've not much to say because it seems to have been said before I even got here.
So, I'll keep it short.
I agree with whomever said that heroism is an issue of player and character, rather than system, but at the same time, I don't believe that this was truly what Edena meant. Simply using the term "D&D" can mean a myriad of things now... but that's neither here nor there.
To me, heroism is not the act in and of itself, but rather the intention behind that act. Why someone chooses to do something is perhaps more important than the decision to do it, or failing that, the act itself.
Does that even make sense?
- Rep.
Paradoxish
First Post
s/LaSH said:
Interesting point, but I don't think that it necessarily applies here. Is a 1st level character really a "hero"? No, probably not. Playing a game with the level of heroism seen in LotR would be the equivalent of starting a game with characters at level 20. A level 20 character DOES know his confines and succeeds at most of the heroic actions you see in movies. A level 20 fighter could stand at the head of an army of Orcs and hold the bridge against their constant assault.
Does this mean low level characters shouldn't be heroic? No, on the contrary, I think low level characters should be heroic. It's that heroism that explains why so many inexperienced adventurers wind up dead. Not everyone can be an Aragorn or a Gimli, after all.
Ultimately, though, it's the choice the players have to make. Heroic actions should be rewarded by the DM, but there should be tangible in-game effects to their heroism as well. A character who stays back to defend a town against insurmountable odds would be legendary and his name would be known throughout the campaign world as he progressed towards greatness. On the other hand, a level 20 rogue who never once committed a heroic act may also be powerful, but he'd be far less famous and probably not recognizable as a "hero" at all.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
To Bagpuss
Bagpuss posted:
Can Edena ever express herself in less than 1000 words?
Comment
Edena_of_Neith is a male, if I may say so myself.
Posted
Sorry even with all thouse examples I don't get your point. My RPGs are very heroic.
Comment
My point is that those I played with just didn't go in for heroism. Not anyone on ENWorld, by the way - these were gamers who have all quit gaming
Posted
In the roleplay games I play I have characters like...
Alum Strongarm, would held up a portcullis while being hacked at orc warriors, just so the men in his platoon could escape the kill space under the guard house. He later carried out one of his wounded men over his shoulder while fighting off more orcs.
Comment
I like this Alum Strongarm! I'll bet his men liked him even more. Now, THAT'S heroic!
Posted
Had a cop in cyberpunk that acted as a decoy for a group of Dragoons cyborgs so the rest of his unit could escape with the civilians.
Comment
I've never played Cyberpunk, but if Shadowrun is similar I get the picture. Sounds like what he did was mighty dangerous. Methinks, Bagpuss, that what I had to say does not apply to how you play!
Heh. Cheers.
Posted
Have fighters that are devoted followers of their deity without the need to be paladins, or get any reward. Had a gnome that refused to worship the gods even when they appear to him in person (when he died he could not be raised).
Comment
That settles it. Bagpuss, welcome to the Stubborn Gamer Club! Well, at least, to the group of those who play stubborn characters, rather. I like it!
Posted
Had a female priest of Idun (goddess of love) that was quick to point out the difference between love and sex to any man that thought she was easy (this character was played by a male).
Comment
That is my idea of very fine roleplaying. Very philosophical, if you think about it. Again, cheers. Thought out characters are my thing, and yours too, apparently.
Posted
Whole crew of a starship in Star Trek, volunteered to go one a one way mission to save the Federation against a Borg invasion, all are now posted MIA.
Comment
Nasty critters, the Borg. I am glad they didn't introduce them into Star Fleet Battles (wonders about trying to fight ships armed with Phaser-IVs, and decides it's too horrible to contemplate.)
Posted
What's interesting is most of the heroic characters I've mentioned are dead. This reflects books and real life where a real hero is willing to face up to impossible odds for what they believe, and so often die defending what they believe in (or value). It only tends to be Hollywood that needs a happy ending for all its heros.
Out of interest how many of the heroic characters you've mentioned are dead?
Comment
Ok, this is a legitimate point and serious matter, and I have some things to say here.
Yes, the dice say that heroes die. Take on impossible odds, and the dice kill you.
It is a problem that only the DM can answer, not the player, in my opinion, and even for the DM the answer is very tricky and difficult - and most DMs don't try to answer this problem because it is so difficult to handle.
The DM must create a scenario in which heroism pays, to put it simply. And in which playing heroically is fun and fulfilling to the players. Not an easy task at all.
Yes, Hollywood can always create good endings, as can any writer of a book (tell me the Emperor hadn't defeated Luke Skywalker, and wasn't frying his butt. It was Darth Vader who won the War for the Alliance, not Luke Skywalker ...)
However, films and books (such as Tolkien's LOTR) were the inspiration for gaming. Why should I, as a gamer, not try to live out a book-like story, if that is what I enjoy? Why not try to emulate the great stories I have read? Frankly, I refuse to poo-poo the idea, though others might. I want to relive the drama and heroism, the tragedy and angst, the whole kit and kabottle, in my games.
Edena has been killed 24 times. He would be permanently dead from Constitution loss, except Mystra reset his Constitution (that was most DEFINITELY a case of Divine Intervention, and it changed Edena's thinking drastically.)
Osilovar has been killed about 3 times.
Cyndelle was killed by Strahd of Ravenloft, and remained dead until Edena went and killed Strahd, avenging her, and brought her body out of the collapsing Domain.
Trillirra was never killed by an enemy (which is saying something, considering she had to undergo the Test of High Sorcery from the Dragonlance scenario.) However, Trillirra was attacked, wounded, and killed by elven PCs (the players decided, for some reason, that no elf deserved to live that wouldn't kill other elves. So much for Tolkien's elven concepts, or lofty elves, etc. ad nauseum.) Ultimately, these repeated attacks from elves (against whom Trillira had no defense at all, being unable to conceive of such atrocity, much less react to it) destroyed the character and ruined the fun of playing her.
Valiante the Valorous has them all beat. He was killed so many times it became a running joke in bars (I killed him 3 times! I have you beat ... I killed him 5 times! No, I have both of you beat: I killed him 8 times!! No, I have you all beat, for I killed him ...)
Finally, Valiante was killed by the Grey Wraith in Dragonlance, and became a wraith himself. He was then struck by a Mace of Disruption, upon which was rolled the D effect. Hooray! Valiante was finally permanently dead! (Ding Dong, the fighter's dead, fighto-fight, the fighter's dead, ding-dong the wretched fighter's dead!)
Having characters killed is a bummer.
It's one of those things about games that if the game means something to you, and you put a lot of effort into it, then victory is sweet, and defeat is agonizing. (Ask any athlete.)
Resurrection is an option, if you have friends (Edena will tell you friends mean a lot!!!) and money, and good luck to boot, but resurrection does not take out the sting of defeat.
For example, Edena was the only survivor (a common situation, unfortunately) of an expedition into the Tomb of Horrors. The others in the party were eaten by Acererak. Those players were not happy campers.
Later, Edena went back to Acererak, to ask to apprentice to him. Acererak wasn't in a listening mood, and only a Spacewarp (and the fact the DM couldn't figure out how to defeat it after 30 minutes of trying, and was frustrated and tired) enabled Edena to finally come forth and speak his piece.
Edena became Acererak's student, and has access to some of the most restricted spells around. You know, the ones titled Rare and Very Rare, in the old Spell Compendium? Now, that was great, that victory!
But if Acererak had eaten Edena, soul and all, that would have been quite a bummer. No resurrection from that!
The greater the risk, the greater the reward and the thrill of victory. And the more awful the pain of defeat.
Personally, I think gamers get tired of the agony of defeat, after it happens to many times (I sympathize, too, with that) and become gunshy, and try to play in lower-risk scenarios.
That's fine. Only problem is ... the rewards are often less satisfying.
I'm not saying that, with just the dice and a neutral DM, that you can play John Carter or Aragorn and get away with it. Usually you cannot. Usually, you're going to get burned.
But when you do try it, and you succeed, and you are victorious In Character, God is that sweet. And good roleplaying, along with characters that are thought out and deep, and situations where you really care about what happens and really care about your character, just make the victory all the greater.
Give me the agony of defeat (for there will ALWAYS be the agony of defeat) if I can have a chance at the thrill of sweet victory.
Why else do you think I took Edena, my favorite character (heh, my Pet, as some put it) into the deathtrap of S1 Tomb of Horrors, and not some meaningless character I rolled up on the spot?
And our DM in that particular adventure was a Killer DM, too. I made a point of finding a Killer DM for that adventure.
Bagpuss posted:
Can Edena ever express herself in less than 1000 words?
Comment
Edena_of_Neith is a male, if I may say so myself.
Posted
Sorry even with all thouse examples I don't get your point. My RPGs are very heroic.
Comment
My point is that those I played with just didn't go in for heroism. Not anyone on ENWorld, by the way - these were gamers who have all quit gaming
Posted
In the roleplay games I play I have characters like...
Alum Strongarm, would held up a portcullis while being hacked at orc warriors, just so the men in his platoon could escape the kill space under the guard house. He later carried out one of his wounded men over his shoulder while fighting off more orcs.
Comment
I like this Alum Strongarm! I'll bet his men liked him even more. Now, THAT'S heroic!
Posted
Had a cop in cyberpunk that acted as a decoy for a group of Dragoons cyborgs so the rest of his unit could escape with the civilians.
Comment
I've never played Cyberpunk, but if Shadowrun is similar I get the picture. Sounds like what he did was mighty dangerous. Methinks, Bagpuss, that what I had to say does not apply to how you play!
Heh. Cheers.
Posted
Have fighters that are devoted followers of their deity without the need to be paladins, or get any reward. Had a gnome that refused to worship the gods even when they appear to him in person (when he died he could not be raised).
Comment
That settles it. Bagpuss, welcome to the Stubborn Gamer Club! Well, at least, to the group of those who play stubborn characters, rather. I like it!
Posted
Had a female priest of Idun (goddess of love) that was quick to point out the difference between love and sex to any man that thought she was easy (this character was played by a male).
Comment
That is my idea of very fine roleplaying. Very philosophical, if you think about it. Again, cheers. Thought out characters are my thing, and yours too, apparently.
Posted
Whole crew of a starship in Star Trek, volunteered to go one a one way mission to save the Federation against a Borg invasion, all are now posted MIA.
Comment
Nasty critters, the Borg. I am glad they didn't introduce them into Star Fleet Battles (wonders about trying to fight ships armed with Phaser-IVs, and decides it's too horrible to contemplate.)
Posted
What's interesting is most of the heroic characters I've mentioned are dead. This reflects books and real life where a real hero is willing to face up to impossible odds for what they believe, and so often die defending what they believe in (or value). It only tends to be Hollywood that needs a happy ending for all its heros.
Out of interest how many of the heroic characters you've mentioned are dead?
Comment
Ok, this is a legitimate point and serious matter, and I have some things to say here.
Yes, the dice say that heroes die. Take on impossible odds, and the dice kill you.
It is a problem that only the DM can answer, not the player, in my opinion, and even for the DM the answer is very tricky and difficult - and most DMs don't try to answer this problem because it is so difficult to handle.
The DM must create a scenario in which heroism pays, to put it simply. And in which playing heroically is fun and fulfilling to the players. Not an easy task at all.
Yes, Hollywood can always create good endings, as can any writer of a book (tell me the Emperor hadn't defeated Luke Skywalker, and wasn't frying his butt. It was Darth Vader who won the War for the Alliance, not Luke Skywalker ...)
However, films and books (such as Tolkien's LOTR) were the inspiration for gaming. Why should I, as a gamer, not try to live out a book-like story, if that is what I enjoy? Why not try to emulate the great stories I have read? Frankly, I refuse to poo-poo the idea, though others might. I want to relive the drama and heroism, the tragedy and angst, the whole kit and kabottle, in my games.
Edena has been killed 24 times. He would be permanently dead from Constitution loss, except Mystra reset his Constitution (that was most DEFINITELY a case of Divine Intervention, and it changed Edena's thinking drastically.)
Osilovar has been killed about 3 times.
Cyndelle was killed by Strahd of Ravenloft, and remained dead until Edena went and killed Strahd, avenging her, and brought her body out of the collapsing Domain.
Trillirra was never killed by an enemy (which is saying something, considering she had to undergo the Test of High Sorcery from the Dragonlance scenario.) However, Trillirra was attacked, wounded, and killed by elven PCs (the players decided, for some reason, that no elf deserved to live that wouldn't kill other elves. So much for Tolkien's elven concepts, or lofty elves, etc. ad nauseum.) Ultimately, these repeated attacks from elves (against whom Trillira had no defense at all, being unable to conceive of such atrocity, much less react to it) destroyed the character and ruined the fun of playing her.
Valiante the Valorous has them all beat. He was killed so many times it became a running joke in bars (I killed him 3 times! I have you beat ... I killed him 5 times! No, I have both of you beat: I killed him 8 times!! No, I have you all beat, for I killed him ...)
Finally, Valiante was killed by the Grey Wraith in Dragonlance, and became a wraith himself. He was then struck by a Mace of Disruption, upon which was rolled the D effect. Hooray! Valiante was finally permanently dead! (Ding Dong, the fighter's dead, fighto-fight, the fighter's dead, ding-dong the wretched fighter's dead!)
Having characters killed is a bummer.
It's one of those things about games that if the game means something to you, and you put a lot of effort into it, then victory is sweet, and defeat is agonizing. (Ask any athlete.)
Resurrection is an option, if you have friends (Edena will tell you friends mean a lot!!!) and money, and good luck to boot, but resurrection does not take out the sting of defeat.
For example, Edena was the only survivor (a common situation, unfortunately) of an expedition into the Tomb of Horrors. The others in the party were eaten by Acererak. Those players were not happy campers.
Later, Edena went back to Acererak, to ask to apprentice to him. Acererak wasn't in a listening mood, and only a Spacewarp (and the fact the DM couldn't figure out how to defeat it after 30 minutes of trying, and was frustrated and tired) enabled Edena to finally come forth and speak his piece.
Edena became Acererak's student, and has access to some of the most restricted spells around. You know, the ones titled Rare and Very Rare, in the old Spell Compendium? Now, that was great, that victory!
But if Acererak had eaten Edena, soul and all, that would have been quite a bummer. No resurrection from that!
The greater the risk, the greater the reward and the thrill of victory. And the more awful the pain of defeat.
Personally, I think gamers get tired of the agony of defeat, after it happens to many times (I sympathize, too, with that) and become gunshy, and try to play in lower-risk scenarios.
That's fine. Only problem is ... the rewards are often less satisfying.
I'm not saying that, with just the dice and a neutral DM, that you can play John Carter or Aragorn and get away with it. Usually you cannot. Usually, you're going to get burned.
But when you do try it, and you succeed, and you are victorious In Character, God is that sweet. And good roleplaying, along with characters that are thought out and deep, and situations where you really care about what happens and really care about your character, just make the victory all the greater.
Give me the agony of defeat (for there will ALWAYS be the agony of defeat) if I can have a chance at the thrill of sweet victory.
Why else do you think I took Edena, my favorite character (heh, my Pet, as some put it) into the deathtrap of S1 Tomb of Horrors, and not some meaningless character I rolled up on the spot?
And our DM in that particular adventure was a Killer DM, too. I made a point of finding a Killer DM for that adventure.
Last edited:
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
To Psion
Psion posted:
Are you playing the same game I am playing. Heroism is the very essence of D&D.
Comment
I WISH I had played in your game, Psion. Cheers!
Posted
Of course, you have to play the game with that in mind, but I have had not problem running my game that way. In the past 2 years, my current PC group has saved an important emmisary from drow assassins, prevented the creation of the doom engine, and artifact that would create and control thousands of undead, stopped a tyrant from acquiring a legion of killer constructs, thwarted the plans of wizards who wished to subjugate the free people, saved their leige from abduction by the psionic oligarchs from the nation from which he was exiled, saved the reborn queen from permanent desctruction and discovered who she really was. The next two adventure will culminate with the laying low of a crime syndicate run by demons, the summoning of a legion of dragons, and the deposing of a tyranical emperor.
Comment
Either your players are running very good aligned characters, or ardently neutral characters serving Balance: I'm not sure which.
Either way, it sounds like they, and you, are having a lot of fun.
Furthermore, it sounds like you're a great DM. Kudos, Psion. (thumbs up)
Heh, I'm more into evil now (the result of too much heroism, perhaps! (rueful look))
I gotta create more characters who support the drow, create Doom Engines, work for tyrants (or are tyrants, or both), believe in slavery, betray their lieges in the most fiendish of ways, and make queens into concubines for their personal use.
Heh. Sorry folks, but evil can be great fun (so long as it is the poor DM's NPCs that get thrashed, and not your fellow PCs - they, of course, have to be in on the vileness and villainry!)
Posted
I'm sorry, but it the DM has the will at all, I'm just not seeing it.
Comment
You are right. As I said in my post above to Bagpuss, the DM has to create a scenario that is rewarding to heroes.
I wish I had had more DMs like you, Psion. I hope your campaign goes on being the good time it has obviously been for both you and your players. Tell them Edena_of_Neith says Hi, and congrats!
Psion posted:
Are you playing the same game I am playing. Heroism is the very essence of D&D.
Comment
I WISH I had played in your game, Psion. Cheers!
Posted
Of course, you have to play the game with that in mind, but I have had not problem running my game that way. In the past 2 years, my current PC group has saved an important emmisary from drow assassins, prevented the creation of the doom engine, and artifact that would create and control thousands of undead, stopped a tyrant from acquiring a legion of killer constructs, thwarted the plans of wizards who wished to subjugate the free people, saved their leige from abduction by the psionic oligarchs from the nation from which he was exiled, saved the reborn queen from permanent desctruction and discovered who she really was. The next two adventure will culminate with the laying low of a crime syndicate run by demons, the summoning of a legion of dragons, and the deposing of a tyranical emperor.
Comment
Either your players are running very good aligned characters, or ardently neutral characters serving Balance: I'm not sure which.
Either way, it sounds like they, and you, are having a lot of fun.
Furthermore, it sounds like you're a great DM. Kudos, Psion. (thumbs up)
Heh, I'm more into evil now (the result of too much heroism, perhaps! (rueful look))
I gotta create more characters who support the drow, create Doom Engines, work for tyrants (or are tyrants, or both), believe in slavery, betray their lieges in the most fiendish of ways, and make queens into concubines for their personal use.
Heh. Sorry folks, but evil can be great fun (so long as it is the poor DM's NPCs that get thrashed, and not your fellow PCs - they, of course, have to be in on the vileness and villainry!)
Posted
I'm sorry, but it the DM has the will at all, I'm just not seeing it.
Comment
You are right. As I said in my post above to Bagpuss, the DM has to create a scenario that is rewarding to heroes.
I wish I had had more DMs like you, Psion. I hope your campaign goes on being the good time it has obviously been for both you and your players. Tell them Edena_of_Neith says Hi, and congrats!
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
To Olgar
Olgar Shiverstone posted
This is a function of the DM/players, not D&D itself. Heck, if anything D&D has increased in its action film heroic appeal with the inclusion of feats and the like.
Comment
Agreed. The DM is crucial to a heroic game working. A pity more of them don't seem to believe in it, but ... obviously, you and some others in ENWorld do, so kudos to that.
Feats add to the game, yes. I think so, at least.
But heroism is about more than any Feat. It's about going against the odds. But it's more than that also. It's about a strong character conception, and being strongly involved in the game, and really really wanting something badly, and being willing to risk a cherished character to get it (that might begin to describe it, but it is not a comprehensive definition ...)
Posted
Plenty of heroes in my game (go read diaglo's story hour -- lots of movie-type heroic acts, if occasionaly poorly described).
If you're game isn't heroic -- find another or change it!
Comment
The IR was heroic. Ask those who played in it. I ran that, and it seemed to me that heroism was in play.
I mean, after all, the elves and druids DID stand up against the gnomes, the Thayvians, the Zhentarim, Calimshan, Mulhorand, and the others who founded the Technomancy, and although they were whelmed in the end they certainly fought the good fight.
The Technomancy, stood up to the daunting threat of elves, druids, faerie, dragons, the Chosen of Mystra, and even the dwarves, and after a bitter fight emerged triumphant.
Those who played the illithid were delightfully evil, Forrester was THE Humanoid Champion (I have never seen anyone do it better), and as for me ... well, MY guys were about as dedicated as it gets. Of course, my guys got massacred, but so it is ...
EVERYONE would have died if not for the sacrifice of the Psionic League. And if not for the courage and vision of Reprisal's character, the United Commonwealth of Toril could never have been.
Did I mention Zouron? He was there. And Hope Isle was founded by idealists who wanted a refuge from the insanity and killing.
Everyone even put up with the kender. A heroic stance if there ever was one ...
Heh. I just wish Live-Action (you know, face to face) games were so good!
I envy you, Olgar. Don't be surprised if I don't come knocked at your door, asking to play in your campaign.
Olgar Shiverstone posted
This is a function of the DM/players, not D&D itself. Heck, if anything D&D has increased in its action film heroic appeal with the inclusion of feats and the like.
Comment
Agreed. The DM is crucial to a heroic game working. A pity more of them don't seem to believe in it, but ... obviously, you and some others in ENWorld do, so kudos to that.
Feats add to the game, yes. I think so, at least.
But heroism is about more than any Feat. It's about going against the odds. But it's more than that also. It's about a strong character conception, and being strongly involved in the game, and really really wanting something badly, and being willing to risk a cherished character to get it (that might begin to describe it, but it is not a comprehensive definition ...)
Posted
Plenty of heroes in my game (go read diaglo's story hour -- lots of movie-type heroic acts, if occasionaly poorly described).
If you're game isn't heroic -- find another or change it!
Comment
The IR was heroic. Ask those who played in it. I ran that, and it seemed to me that heroism was in play.
I mean, after all, the elves and druids DID stand up against the gnomes, the Thayvians, the Zhentarim, Calimshan, Mulhorand, and the others who founded the Technomancy, and although they were whelmed in the end they certainly fought the good fight.
The Technomancy, stood up to the daunting threat of elves, druids, faerie, dragons, the Chosen of Mystra, and even the dwarves, and after a bitter fight emerged triumphant.
Those who played the illithid were delightfully evil, Forrester was THE Humanoid Champion (I have never seen anyone do it better), and as for me ... well, MY guys were about as dedicated as it gets. Of course, my guys got massacred, but so it is ...
EVERYONE would have died if not for the sacrifice of the Psionic League. And if not for the courage and vision of Reprisal's character, the United Commonwealth of Toril could never have been.
Did I mention Zouron? He was there. And Hope Isle was founded by idealists who wanted a refuge from the insanity and killing.
Everyone even put up with the kender. A heroic stance if there ever was one ...
Heh. I just wish Live-Action (you know, face to face) games were so good!
I envy you, Olgar. Don't be surprised if I don't come knocked at your door, asking to play in your campaign.
Oni
First Post
Question. Does not the ability to have your character raised take some of the wind out of the sails of the idea of the heroic character risking it all. It's no longer an issue of facing certain death and ultimate defeat, but rather a set back. I would think coming back from the dead 20 or so times would certainly lessen its presense as a true threat vs. an inconveniance. If death isn't something to be truly feared on a truly primal and total level, then how heroic is it to stare it in the face? How much does putting your favorite character in harms way mean if the risk of truly permanent damage is truly absent?
I ask you please not to take offense, I certainly don't mean any. However I think it is an important question in regards to your topic so I ask it anyway.
I ask you please not to take offense, I certainly don't mean any. However I think it is an important question in regards to your topic so I ask it anyway.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
To Zappo
Zappo posted:
Edena, consider this: if not D&D, is there any RPG at all that you consider heroic?
Comment:
Actually, I think D&D lends itself to heroism more than any other RPG. (I have not played Hackmaster, which is really 1st Edition D&D all over again I am betting ... I must guess Hackmaster encourages heroics, but after reading Knights of the Dinner Table, I guess I am biased about Hackmaster.)
Shadowrun is certainly not about heroics.
Paranoia has great heroics, and everyone always dies in that darkly humorous game (that has to be the most NOISY game I have ever heard played, by the way.)
Warhammer might rival D&D, but it seems it's more on the strategic/tactical side.
Call of Cthulu is not about heroics, but about dramatic horror. An entirely different (and equally worthwhile) idea.
Star Wars RPG? I don't know. Haven't played it. If Jedi are like as to those in Attack of the Clones, they aren't very heroic. If they are like Luke Skywalker, that's another matter (Wookies come off as the type that could make for great heroes ...)
I agree with you. D&D is the most apt to heroism, if any game is.
Now, LARPs are great for roleplaying with the ladies, and that is even better than heroism ...
Zappo posted:
Edena, consider this: if not D&D, is there any RPG at all that you consider heroic?
Comment:
Actually, I think D&D lends itself to heroism more than any other RPG. (I have not played Hackmaster, which is really 1st Edition D&D all over again I am betting ... I must guess Hackmaster encourages heroics, but after reading Knights of the Dinner Table, I guess I am biased about Hackmaster.)
Shadowrun is certainly not about heroics.
Paranoia has great heroics, and everyone always dies in that darkly humorous game (that has to be the most NOISY game I have ever heard played, by the way.)
Warhammer might rival D&D, but it seems it's more on the strategic/tactical side.
Call of Cthulu is not about heroics, but about dramatic horror. An entirely different (and equally worthwhile) idea.
Star Wars RPG? I don't know. Haven't played it. If Jedi are like as to those in Attack of the Clones, they aren't very heroic. If they are like Luke Skywalker, that's another matter (Wookies come off as the type that could make for great heroes ...)
I agree with you. D&D is the most apt to heroism, if any game is.
Now, LARPs are great for roleplaying with the ladies, and that is even better than heroism ...
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