D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

[Umbran]

Free Continental Breakfast for EVERYONE. How much more can I swear to?

That means millions, nay billions will need to be fed. Every. Single. Morning. For EVERYONE to get it, you are going to have to undertake great works, pass up many pleasant things in life, and possibly go to places very hostile to Continental Breakfast, where the risk to you will be great.

When Continental Breakfast for EVERYONE is more important to you than your own well-being, then we can talk about you getting spells.

 

[Umbran]

The RAW is, the Divine magic comes from the "realms of the gods", including Hestavar.

One "can" channel an Outer Plane.

By extension, Divine magic is Astral magic.

For your own game, that's fine. I don't see evidence in the game materials that supports that this is true in the game, in general. At most, one can argue that the power has to go through the Astral, but not that it comes from the Astral.

Most importantly because you can run a game with divine magic, but no Astral Plane.

 

[Voadam]

PH page 205:

"All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding-learned or intuitive-of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters' access to the Weave is mediated by divine power-gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin's oath."

 

[Voadam]

The RAW is, the Divine magic comes from the "realms of the gods", including Hestavar.

Where does it say that?

I am not familiar with such a reference in the 5e PH or DMG.

 

[Maxperson]

The RAW is, the Divine magic comes from the "realms of the gods", including Hestavar.

One "can" channel an Outer Plane.

By extension, Divine magic is Astral magic.

That's still faulty logic. By extension clerics of the gods on Hestavar can channel Hestavar. Not the astral plane. And even if they could do it that way, they still cannot just grab from the astral. They would need a god with a realm on the astral to do so. Even further, there is no such thing as astral magic. There are only divine and arcane magics. Not sure if 5.5e is going to be adding in primal or not.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't know if Hestavar is even in 5e.

Hestavar is part of the Forgotten Realms and other settings.

5e Spelljammer (page 21) mentions "Hestavar" once, in passing. So it officially exists in 5e.

 

[Yaarel]

That's still faulty logic. By extension clerics of the gods on Hestavar can channer Hestavar. Not the astral plane. And even if they could do it that way, they still cannot just grab from the astral. They would need a god with a realm on the astral to do so. Even further, there is no such thing as astral magic. There are only divine and arcane magics. Not sure if 5.5e is going to be adding in primal or not.

The power comes from the realms, not the gods. What "realms" mean is vague, but can mean anywhere in the Astral Plane.

 

[Minigiant]

No. According to 5e the source of magic is the weave. The paladin's oath gives him access to the weave according to his oath tenets(righteousness, vengeance, etc.). A cleric requires divine power from a god to access the weave.

Everyone's magic defaults from the Weave.

The differences are the intermediaries. Clerics have gods. Sorcerer have their origins as a connection.

The question is how the oath grants access to the weave if it isn't either intelligent, managed, or fundamental.

The default in D&D is that either your study, magical nature, or magical master connect you to the Weave.

Which is it for Oaths?

 

[Yaarel]

For your own game, that's fine. I don't see evidence in the game materials that supports that this is true in the game, in general. At most, one can argue that the power has to go through the Astral, but not that it comes from the Astral.

Most importantly because you can run a game with divine magic, but no Astral Plane.

I am talking about the Cleric class description in the UA for 2024.

It relates to Xanathars Guide and its godless "cosmic force" Cleric.

 

[Minigiant]

Because that's not enough, that's why. The paladin doesn't get power because he said some words. He gets it because he has great faith and conviction in those words. The power from from the faith in the oath, not the words of the oath.

So the oath is Truenaming.

The Paladin beats the Truespeak DC to turn themselves magical.