D&D 5E If you could rearrange ability scores

[Szatany]

how would they look?
My ideal setup is:

Strength - no change
Constitution - no change
Agility - mobility based portions of dexterity, sneaking, initiative, armor class, finesse melee weapons
Precision - manual dexterity and perception, open locks, crafting, spot and listen, ranged attacks
Intellect - no change
Charisma - as normal but incorporates wisdom's power of will

 

[delericho]

I'd keep the basic six, and use the following definitions:

Str - the amount of physical force you can bring to bear. This is a strictly offensive stat, with no defensive component. (That is, no Str saves.)
Dex - physical agility, reflexes and coordination. This is a hybrid stat, applying to missile attack rolls but also to Reflex saves.
Con - physical toughness and resilience. This is a strictly defensive stat, applying to hit points and Fort saves, but with no bearing on attack or damage rolls.

Wis - the "mental analogue" of Con, this represents mental toughness and resilience. This is a strictly defensive stat, applying to Will saves, but with no bearing on magical/psionic attacks.
Int - the "mental analogue" of Dex, this represents mental agility and coordination. This is a hybrid stat, applying to some spell attacks, and also to ? saves (a new category dealing primarily with illusions and "reason-based" attacks such as the maze spell).
Cha - the "mental analogue" of Str, this represents the amount of magical/psionic force you can bring to bear (and also persuasion and luck). This is a strictly offensive stat, with no defensive component - and is the stat that adds to most magical damage rolls. Additionally, I would remove all connection between appearance and Cha!

Finally, I'd put the six stats in a circle on the character sheet.

(Note: I'm aware that this doesn't match 5e as it stands, and that it doesn't, and can't really be made to, fit the 5e model of a save for each stat. So it's very much a hypothetical.)

 

[Starfox]

My homebrew (see sig) uses only three attributes.
By breaking up the connection between skills and attributes (I use no attribute bonuses to skills or the like) I find that attributes are not needed as much.

Body - Brawn and Toughness
Mind - Really more a measure of focus and concentration, used with many powers
Reflexes - Reaction speed, agility, and wits

If I'd rearrange the DnD attributes....

Strength - pretty happy with this, but I'd not base any skills on it
Perception - Manual dexterity and spot skills. Used for ranged combat, disabling traps, spot.
Agility - Dodging, sneaking, athletics.
Spirit - Wisdom (minus perception) and Charisma from DnD. Clerical magic and sorcery
Constitution - As is
Intelligence - For wizards, less skill-heavy than in 3E/Pathfinder. This is the trickiest attribute IMO - I don't want players to feel compelled to play smart or stupid, and the current impact on skill points is to big, making Intelligence mandatory for everyone. Might skip this and just make Wizards use Spirit too.

Intellect - no change

Except you changed the name already ^^

 

[jonesy]

Something along these lines (but keep in mind that this is a very rough idea and not that well thought out yet):

Mass (weight, ability to increase Force, ability to increase Endurance)
Speed (relaxed, normal, maximum)
Acceleration (how quickly reaches normal speed, how quickly reaches maximum speed)
Force (hitting power, ramming power running against something, pushing power, lifting power)
Endurance (how long can maintain maximum Force, maximum Speed, or maximum Acceleration, how much Force can withstand)

Ability to jump would depend on your amounts of Mass and Force.

Mental stability (ability to withstand stressors)
Mental speed (how quickly one can use Knowledge or Intelligence)
Knowledge (ability to apply skills, combine skills, general understanding of things)
Intelligence (ability to learn more Knowledge, use Knowledge)

To learn skills one uses Intelligence, and to use skills one uses Knowledge.

 

[delericho]

Perception - Manual dexterity and spot skills. Used for ranged combat, disabling traps, spot.

Nitpick: I play the bagpipes (which is extremely tied to manual dexterity) and also very shortsighted.

More and more, I'm inclined to think that Perception really needs its own dedicated stat.

 

[Starfox]

Nitpick: I play the bagpipes (which is extremely tied to manual dexterity) and also very shortsighted.

More and more, I'm inclined to think that Perception really needs its own dedicated stat.

Interesting observation. I thought some about this after writing it, and your post makes me reflect more. Any division of attributes has to be arbitrary, and will not work in every situation.

The "Perception" attribute I mentioned above has more to do with hand-eye coordination - aiming, tracking an object at a distance, and sensing obstacles along the path of a vehicle ahead of time. Not quite related to the acuity of senses, but related. Not sure what a better name would be.

IMO, Perception actually fits pretty well under Wisdom. Because senses do not really make perception - it is our understanding of our senses that does. RL I have mediocre senses all over, but I am still quite perceptive, because my subconscious is constantly noting details and reporting them to my conscious. One of my friends has really good eyesight - he can spot nautical signs at a distance I can barely see them with binoculars - but is not what you'd call "perceptive" and often misses things around or nearby.

But in the final analysis I must say the way I do things in my homebrew (divorcing stats from skills) or that Fudge does it (removing stats entirely) is the best - there is simply is no good way to accurately map personal aptitudes to a limed number of attributes and the relationships of these attributes to skills in a consistent and believable manner.

 

[The Choice]

I'd remove them completely. As long as "skills" of some sort exist, they're a needless abstraction. I understand, though, that my opinion is very far from the mainstream, and wouldn't fly for any edition of D&D.

 

[Sadrik]

I'd keep everything the same but switch Wisdom for Awareness. Move former WIS stuff to INT and CHA (Knowledge like skills to INT and Willpower save stuff to CHA). In my mind, I think Wisdom is the worst stat and is in fact a catch all that should be broken up. I also agree with others sentiment that perception should be its own beast and not lashed to some other concept.

I think DEX also suffers a bit but is by no means the worst offender. There are ways you can make DEX less of an impact. Make armor AC bonus add to your DEX save, allows you to bounce rays off your armor and resist fireballs better. If Awareness is a stat move initiative and surprise modifiers there.

I think the base assumption for attack rolls should be DEX, then as the exception you give the ability to use STR with certain weapons. Basically as it is now but swapped. Then you can define STR and DEX much more simply, your dont have to get into the ranged vs. non-ranged difference. It would be DEX to hit with weapons and STR to damage period. Then add in traits that can switch this around. Versatile could be STR or DEX and Power could be STR only.

 

[Li Shenron]

Precision - manual dexterity and perception, open locks, crafting, spot and listen, ranged attacks

Interesting idea to isolate mobility-based from the rest, but dividing Dexterity this way might still have a problem related to movement (not mobility). That when having your hands bound, or being paralyzed, or grappled, you still have mostly the same perception capabilities but not the manual ones.

Charisma - as normal but incorporates wisdom's power of will

Yes.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted