# D&D 5EIf you use thunderstep but teleport less than 10 feet do you take damage?

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
The lightning bolt is 5' wide. If we assume it passes through the center of the space, then to duck under it, you need to be less than 2' 6" tall. A 6' man doesn't duck under it, they would have to fall prone.

A Halfling, on the other hand, could duck rather easily.
Lightning weaves back and forth, so while the line covers a 5 foot wide area, the bolt itself is smaller and zigzags within that area. A dex save would indicate getting out of the way within that space. If it didn't do that, there could be no save. It would be impossible to avoid. Successful dex saves don't make you fall prone, so you don't have to get under that 2.5 foot space to be successful.

#### James Gasik

##### Legend
Supporter
But now we have a different problem. Your Dex save just so happens to let you move out of an arc that you weren't able to perceive nor have any way to know where it would be in the very brief window of time the lightning bolt strikes. That's not a Dex save, that's precognition!

#### Redwizard007

And you're seriously arguing that those hands crossed no space?
Well in this example, they reached across, but had they teleported, then yes, I would be.

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
Well in this example, they reached across, but had they teleported, then yes, I would be.
In all examples they cross.

You can reach across the table
You can walk across the table
You can teleport across the table
You can jump across the table
You can crawl across the table
You can fly across the table

Every time you are crossing the intervening space somehow. That's what across means. The verb is only HOW you get across the space, not if you cross the space.

#### James Gasik

##### Legend
Supporter
Ok so we have now proved that teleport crosses a space without entering the space it crosses. But we can't prove that teleport crosses dimensional boundaries. So...I guess you turn into a stream of particles, phase through the intervening space and reform at the destination?

#### Irlo

##### Hero
In all examples they cross.

You can reach across the table
You can walk across the table
You can teleport across the table
You can jump across the table
You can crawl across the table
You can fly across the table

Every time you are crossing the intervening space somehow. That's what across means. The verb is only HOW you get across the space, not if you cross the space.
I can yell across the room.

I can wave across the street.

I can glare across the table.

#### Irlo

##### Hero
"As your mastery grows, you learn spells of transportation and can teleport yourself across vast distances."
We should all keep in mind that this snippet from the flavor text, which is associated with the conjurer school of wizardry and only the conjurer school of wizardry, is being presented as the unassailable evidence that teleportation is dimensional travel and that space is physically crossed. I encourage everyone to give this evidence all the weight it deserves when deciding how teleportion works. Since across can be used to describe relative position rather than movement, and because DnD rules are not (as I say a lot lately) logically rigorous or internally consistent, you all can probably guess where I stand on this one.

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
Ok so we have now proved that teleport crosses a space without entering the space it crosses. But we can't prove that teleport crosses dimensional boundaries. So...I guess you turn into a stream of particles, phase through the intervening space and reform at the destination?
Like instantaneous transporters from Star Trek. You cross the intervening space in Star Trek, just as a beam of energy. Or in D&D the implication is very, very strongly that you do it via another dimension. One of the teleport spells is even called Dimension Door.

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
By the way, I just found this in the DMG.

"DIMENSIONAL SHACKLES
Wondrous item, rare You can use an action to place these shackles on an incapacitated creature. The shackles adjust to fit a creature of Small to Large size. In addition to serving as mundane manacles, the shackles prevent a creature bound by them from using any method of extradimensional movement, including teleportation or travel to a different plane of existence."

Does this finally put it to rest? That ain't fluff.

Edit: And...

"BOON OF DIMENSIONAL TRAVEL
As an action, you can cast the misty step spell, without using a spell slot or any components. Once you do so, you can't use this boon again until you finish a short rest."

#### James Gasik

##### Legend
Supporter
That would seem to! When I looked at spells that block extradimensional movement, they bothered to say, in separate sentences that "this spell blocks extradimensional movement" and then "this spell blocks teleportation" making it seem like they were two different things. But the Dimensional Shackles do make it clearer. Good find!

EDIT: though have I said I'm tired of having to go digging in strange places to find rules that they could just come out and say are rules?

Yeah, a lot. LOL

#### Irlo

##### Hero
By the way, I just find this in the DMG.

"DIMENSIONAL SHACKLES
Wondrous item, rare You can use an action to place these shackles on an incapacitated creature. The shackles adjust to fit a creature of Small to Large size. In addition to serving as mundane manacles, the shackles prevent a creature bound by them from using any method of extradimensional movement, including teleportation or travel to a different plane of existence."

Does this finally put it to rest? That ain't fluff.
I can find competing evidence that it's not dimensional. I know the Lyxen has done that already.

Here it is again:
Extradimensional Interference. Affected creatures can't move or travel using teleportation or by extradimensional or interplanar means.
The OR there strongly implies that teleportation is NOT extradimensional.

Not internally consistent. Not logically rigorous.

#### James Gasik

##### Legend
Supporter
But now we're back to square one. We have different rules elements that seem to say different things.

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
I can find competing evidence that it's not dimensional. I know the Lyxen has done that already.

Here it is again:

The OR there strongly implies that teleportation is NOT extradimensional.

Not internally consistent. Not logically rigorous.
Um, no. That is not evidence that it's not. It's just not as crystal clear that it is as the rule that I found. At this point you're grasping at straws in order to be right, rather than arguing a position, so I'm out.

#### James Gasik

##### Legend
Supporter
Ah here it is, Forbiddance. I don't discount the possibility that Dimensional Shackles is evidence of the rule, but the fact that Forbiddance is written this way is confusing to say the least- they could have much more succinctly saved themselves some word count here by saying "extradimensional travel such as teleport or plane shift".

#### Attachments

• Forbiddance.jpg
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#### Irlo

##### Hero
Um, no. That is not evidence that it's not. It's just not as crystal clear that it is as the rule that I found. At this point you're grasping at straws in order to be right, rather than arguing a position, so I'm out.
I'm grasping at straws to prove that I'm right that there are contradicting indications and various interpretations of teleporting and that there is no one logically consistent, rules-supported interpretation? Okay, I guess it is time for both of us to move on.

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
Ah here it is, Forbiddance. I don't discount the possibility that Dimensional Shackles is evidence of the rule, but the fact that Forbiddance is written this way is confusing to say the least- they could have much more succinctly saved themselves some word count here by saying "extradimensional travel such as teleport or plane shift".
Yeah. As I said when I was arguing from those rules, it seems that they are differentiating based on purpose rather than based on methodology. Teleport spells use dimensions to get from one place to another, but the purpose is not to travel to other dimensions, so they are just referred to by those spells as "or teleportation."

#### Irlo

##### Hero
I'm grasping at straws to prove that I'm right that there are contradicting indications and various interpretations of teleporting and that there is no one logically consistent, rules-supported interpretation? Okay, I guess it is time for both of us to move on.
I see that you're putting together more citations. I do believe you have the preponderance of evidence.

I only wish I'd seen it 15 pages ago!

Can we argue about the definition of "across" now?

#### Irlo

##### Hero
Maybe you got lucky and just happened to move left at the right time.
Or bent down to pick up a copper piece.

#### glass

##### (he, him)
You can reach across the table
You can walk across the table
You can teleport across the table
You can jump across the table
You can crawl across the table
You can fly across the table
Sing it with me: "One of these things is not like the others."

_
glass.

#### Maxperson

##### Morkus from Orkus
Sing it with me: "One of these things is not like the others."

_
glass.
Yeah. Who'd want to jump across a table when there are safer ways.

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