D&D 5E Illusionist - is it as weak as it seems?

[Sunseeker]

It's bloody distracting I would imagine if nothing else. BBEG: "What? What!!?! No!!! He's getting KITTENS all over my beautiful dungeon!!!"

That's basically how I ran them in several combats. The Wizard created all sorts of distracting things and foes that failed their wisdom check to realize it is an illusion lost their reaction, because they were distracted by all the flaming bunnies running around.

 

[gyor]

Illusory Reality is insanely powerful, even in combat if you think of the Illusionist as more control then as a damage dealer.

Cast an Illusion of a wall and make it real and you can cut off half of an enemy's forces, cast an illusion of a mithril cage around an enemy mage's defender, and he no longer has protection, cast an illusion of a hill and you have a terrian advantage, cast an illusion of a puddle of grease and your enemy slips, cast an illusion of a ceiling, and enemy fliers can't fly, fighter loses his shield, cast an illusion of a shield and make it real and he has his shield back. Also note that Truesight should have no effect on any illusion that has been made real, because its not an illusion anymore its, real.

It also has huge out of combat use. Cast the spell and and make a Palace real for a minute, or stairs, or a bridge, tools, art work, realistic manniquiens, or puppets, a net, a raft, a glider, a fake corpse that someone can inspect, a ball, forged papers, mud pits, rope, a towering statue, an icy lake, the possiblities are endless. The key to the Illusionist subclass is creativity, its the most powerful class out of combat at level 14, and useful in combat as well, but not the best damage dealer.

By level 14 even minor illusion is useful in combat, use it to create chains around an enemy, or a mud pit under thier feet. Heck you could use minor illusion to stick a short creature in a metal box.

 

[gyor]

An example you could cast Mirage Arcane to create a castle (as long as you design it as a single object) that is a mile square for one minute, or a lake as Illusionary Reality has no size restrictions. Need to melt an ice wall, create an illusion of lava pool.

 

[EvanNave55]

I've never played an illusionist myself but from my DM who's older than myself and has played with them he said you could do things like make a pit and people will think they actually fell in taking 'damage' (and if it's enough to kill them they had to make a con save or die from a heart attack, or something like to that) so above and beyond the damage they're trapped in the 'pit' stopping them from moving, so while they could shoot you with a crossbow they were otherwise basic am taken out of the combat if they failed the save to disbelief it.

Was this home rules or is this how it used to work?

 

[Rhenny]

I've never played an illusionist myself but from my DM who's older than myself and has played with them he said you could do things like make a pit and people will think they actually fell in taking 'damage' (and if it's enough to kill them they had to make a con save or die from a heart attack, or something like to that) so above and beyond the damage they're trapped in the 'pit' stopping them from moving, so while they could shoot you with a crossbow they were otherwise basic am taken out of the combat if they failed the save to disbelief it.

Was this home rules or is this how it used to work?

This sounds like Phantasmal Force.

 

[PnPgamer]

Illusory Reality is insanely powerful, even in combat if you think of the Illusionist as more control then as a damage dealer.

Cast an Illusion of a wall and make it real and you can cut off half of an enemy's forces, cast an illusion of a mithril cage around an enemy mage's defender, and he no longer has protection, cast an illusion of a hill and you have a terrian advantage, cast an illusion of a puddle of grease and your enemy slips, cast an illusion of a ceiling, and enemy fliers can't fly, fighter loses his shield, cast an illusion of a shield and make it real and he has his shield back. Also note that Truesight should have no effect on any illusion that has been made real, because its not an illusion anymore its, real.

It also has huge out of combat use. Cast the spell and and make a Palace real for a minute, or stairs, or a bridge, tools, art work, realistic manniquiens, or puppets, a net, a raft, a glider, a fake corpse that someone can inspect, a ball, forged papers, mud pits, rope, a towering statue, an icy lake, the possiblities are endless. The key to the Illusionist subclass is creativity, its the most powerful class out of combat at level 14, and useful in combat as well, but not the best damage dealer.

By level 14 even minor illusion is useful in combat, use it to create chains around an enemy, or a mud pit under thier feet. Heck you could use minor illusion to stick a short creature in a metal box.

Or one could make his imaginary girlfriend real. For those lonely nights.

 

[cormanthor]

Illusory Reality is insanely powerful, even in combat if you think of the Illusionist as more control then as a damage dealer.

Cast an Illusion of a wall and make it real and you can cut off half of an enemy's forces, cast an illusion of a mithril cage around an enemy mage's defender, and he no longer has protection, cast an illusion of a hill and you have a terrian advantage, cast an illusion of a puddle of grease and your enemy slips, cast an illusion of a ceiling, and enemy fliers can't fly, fighter loses his shield, cast an illusion of a shield and make it real and he has his shield back. Also note that Truesight should have no effect on any illusion that has been made real, because its not an illusion anymore its, real.

It also has huge out of combat use. Cast the spell and and make a Palace real for a minute, or stairs, or a bridge, tools, art work, realistic manniquiens, or puppets, a net, a raft, a glider, a fake corpse that someone can inspect, a ball, forged papers, mud pits, rope, a towering statue, an icy lake, the possiblities are endless. The key to the Illusionist subclass is creativity, its the most powerful class out of combat at level 14, and useful in combat as well, but not the best damage dealer.

By level 14 even minor illusion is useful in combat, use it to create chains around an enemy, or a mud pit under thier feet. Heck you could use minor illusion to stick a short creature in a metal box.

Due to the "no damage" rule, it can't possibly be real. If I made a club real, should it not do 1d4 damage if I whack you with it? And since it can't be solid enough to hurt, I would think that Truesight should still see it for what it is.

I have accepted both the Improved Minor Illusion and Illusory Self abilities as written. However, I've opted for the following changes to take some of the "suck" out of illusionists in my campaign:
6^th level ---
Potent Illusions
Starting at 6th level, when you cast any illusion spell, it also has a tangible element to it. If not already in the spell description, your illusions are real enough to be touched, but any violent or heavy force will pass through it like the surface tension of water. While you could drag an illusory chair away from the table, sitting in it will land you on your rear.
In addition, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.
14^th level ---
Illusory Reality
By 14th level, you have learned the secret of weaving shadow magic into your illusions to give them a semi-reality. When you cast an illusion spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose one inanimate, nonmagical object that is part of the illusion and make that object real. You can do this on your turn as a bonus action while the spell is ongoing. The object remains real for 1 minute. For example, you can create an illusion of a bridge over a chasm and then make it real long enough for your allies to cross.
If the object strikes a creature, as say a falling stone might, the object can't deal more than 3d8 damage (increasing to 4d8 damage at 17th level).
Your illusions are so realistic and engaging that any saving throws against them have disadvantage on the roll.

I feel that the 6th level ability modifications do not greatly improve the perceived "power" of the illusionist, save for the effect it will have on creatures with blindsight. It does, however, mean that his illusions won't be auto-disbelieved by the entire enemy force at once. (and the chair trick is even funnier when you touched it!)
As for the 14th level ability modifications, I bumped up the power a few notches. First, lets make "real" really real. Truesight would be affected without question. I allowed damage commensurate with a mid-power cantrip (I used shocking grasp in this case), since that can't be too much in the grand scheme of things. I will have to adjudicate a lot of below-max damage, but the weapons chart and some common sense ought to get me through. I capped it since we had a bad habit in old 2nd Edition games of dropping an Instant Fortress on our enemies to good effect.
The last line there really helps the illusionist maintain his worth through 20th level.

I welcome any constructive/creative feedback on these changes to my campaign world.

 

[JWO]

I had the same trepidations with the illusion school.

We've only played a few sessions but the gnome illusionist in the new group I'm DMing has been really entertaining so far, but he seems to be a very creative player.

So far, he's only used the illusions to trick the other players as they've only really faced mindless enemies, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what he does when they start encountering enemies and NPCs who might be susceptible to his illusions...

 

[Rhenny]

After participating in a Phantasmal Force thread at WoTC, I have to say, I'm gaining much more respect for the spell. It is quite powerful and versatile.

Since it affects the mind of the target, it pretty much makes the target react to the phantasm as if it were real until it makes an INT save. It can spend an action each turn to make a new save therefore, most of the time, the target is neutralized until it can make its save. Also, it can cause 1d6 damage per round if the phantasm would normally cause damage.

This one spell, can trap targets in pits or metal cages...it can even trap the creature in a cage and shock it with electricity or burn it with flames. It can cause a stony hand to erupt from the ground and crush/hold a foot or a leg (causing damage and immobilizing). It is awesome.

The key is that a phantasm is different from an illusion. Lots of creatures can see an illusion, but only the mind of the target is affected by the phantasm. This makes it stronger and also limits it at the same time.

After really thinking about this, I can definitely see playing an illusionist with only illusions and phantasms.

 

[steeldragons]

I agree with those pointing out the difference between illusions and phantasms. They are separate things, though are all "illusion magic". Like Cause Fear, Friends or Charm Person is a "charm" or "enchantment" and Suggestion, Command or Hold Person might be classified as a compulsion are both "enchantment magic." They [phantasm or compulsion] are a next/second "grade" of those magical disciplines.

Phantasms will react to interactions. They are "real" enough to the target to deal "illusory damage" that cause the target to act accordingly, including "passing out" when they believe themselves to be dead, or in the case of phatansamal killer feel real enough to instill a heart attack/stroke/brain death/psychic attack/however you fluff the "killing" side of the spell.

Phantasmal magic, not illusions, are the bread and butter of the illusionist class [non-phantasmal illusions are, I suppose, the jam...a nice colorful additional, though largely unnecessary, layer on top. ]. And, also as noted by several people, it does rely on the creativity of the player, really, moreso than the power of the spells, to show its real colors. This [as a separate conversation: "Levels of Player Dependency of Different Classes"] could be considered a bug of the class, compared to other magely traditions...I personally consider it a feature, but YMMV.

As that may be, it doesn't seem correct or fair to claim the illusionist class is "underpowered", or any more underpowered than it ever was in 1-2e. The tradition special powers are certainly not the "wow" of some of the other traditions...but then, that's the difference of the traditions. They should not expected to match [power/flavor/usefulness] 1:1 across all 8 traditions...and really, can not be if the design goal/intention was to make different tradition mages feel/play differently vs. a simple flavor/fluff trappings with no mechanical impact.

I'll also chime in to agree with the people that say that no illusionist worth their salt would ever tell anyone they are an illusionist. And certainly wouldn't make it clear to enemies. They are a WIZARD (which they actually really are)! Seems to me, with 5e's capacity for them to continue to cast things from any other school, makes this more true than it's ever been (though granted having largely skipped 3 & 4e, I can't really speak to how the illusion specialist mage played in those editions).

So, yeah until I see one in play...and I suppose played poorly...I can't really agree with the thread's premise that the illusionist wizard is or "seems" underpowered.