D&D 5E Illusionist - is it as weak as it seems?

Shadowdweller00

Adventurer
If I was a 5e Illusionist then I would make sure everyone knew.

Especially when you can mix and match spells freely, no one will be able to tell if they are going to be hit with an illusion or not.
Hmm. You know....

"Fear me, pitiful mortals. Give me your meager wages or I shall bring a plague of veils upon your petty lives. I will hide and move your privies, turn your socks invisible. Your petty abodes I will cover in GARISH colors. Your friends and loved ones shall become HIDEOUS to behold. Give me your gold or I shall...REDECORATE your lives. Muahahaha.

Now gaze upon my improbably statuesque image and DESPAIR!"
 
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BedlamBlade

Villager
Yeah. This is my first real look at it and...What does it even mean?

You "change the nature of the illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion),..." What does that mean? At 6th level, we're talking about stuff like Invisibility, Mirror Image and Major Image. How does one "change the nature" of these spells? What is "changing the nature" of these spells?

It essentially changes "I can spend one slot, to cast this one illusory effect, and have that effect last up to its duration" to "I can spend one slot, to effectively cast one illusion (Silent Image, Major Image, etc.) per round for the duration listed on that spell." Your illusory knight gets pegged with an arrow and the gobbos disbelieve? Use an action (no verbal or somatic components necessary) and said useless knight vanishes and a wall of fire appears in another location. And you still have a bonus action to use on Healing Word or Misty Step or the like.

Sure, a non-Illusionist wizard can replicate this by recasting the spell...a grand total of as many times as she wishes to waste the spell slots. Illusionists do more with less. Heck, cast Major Image in a sixth level slot and it's effectively permanent. An 11th level Illusionist essentially has a 3rd level spell at-will, at that point. Sure it takes an action to move around and keep with you, but that's hardly an insurmountable hurdle. Added bonus? Your 3rd level illusion no longer takes up your concentration slot, either, so rock two illusions at once (three with Minor Illusion) or work on battlefield control with your illusion while maintaining a concentration buff or debuff as well. All while Disguse Self'd, which comes in handy with Malleable Illusion again, because a) you don't have to recast or b) expose that you're casting (just change your appearance by willing it with Malleable Illusions, no components necessary). Then Misty Step (at-will when you're a level 18 wizard!) to another location, with another face. Bonus points for impersonating someone else on the battlefield. Or, you know, concentrate on maintaining Invisibility on yourself. Using Malleable Illusions to change your ongoing spell isn't casting a spell, so there's a good chance it won't break your invisibility, and you're still contributing to the fight while keeping yourself safe.

Take it to the next level. Malleable Illusions + Illusory Reality + Mirage Arcane. When my Illusionist hits this point, he will be casting Mirage Arcane outside of every dungeon the party is about the enter. It's a rare dungeon that extends more than a square mile, and 10 days is a long time. With luck, you'll get a long rest in, and have that 7th level slot back as well. Make one minor change with the spell to start. Say, markers on the walls as you go, marking what you have explored. With Malleable Illusions, it's simplicity itself. Keeps the illusion always in sight, provides utility and flavor. Oh no! Pit trap triggered! Malleable Illusions on the Mirage Arcane plus Illusory Reality to provide the oft cited bridge effect! Additional party resources used? None.

Yikes! Combat erupts! Giant bats you say? Not smart, blindsense...but Mirage Arcane includes tactile and auditory effects, so these beasts shouldn't automatically see through the stone web cage Mirage Arcane'd around them. The swarm of subterranean dwellers (duergar, troglodytes, whatever) using the bats as mounts running toward the party? They're crossing difficult terrain (also courtesy of the same Mirage Arcane action that imprisoned the giant bats). Obvious toughs can be boxed as an action (they may or may not get a dex save, depending on circumstances/tactic and DM judgement call. Fair dues. Not like it's costing you any additional spell slots, right?). Dang. They pulled out crossbows. Guess it's time to spend an action for instant fortifications, with arrow slits, so the party can snipe back from awesome cover? Illusory Reality makes it real for 10 combat rounds. A few dozen more appear, making the odds increasingly bad. Well, if you have to retreat, they can't pursue for a minute or so, and nothing is stopping you from dropping new walls behind you as you flee. It only takes one action for the wall and one bonus action to make it real. Not to mention the terrain in front of the party is smooth going, while behind them it's all difficult terrain. Thanks Mirage Arcane and Malleable Illusions!

Hrm. Looks like they have a few casters that are intent on following. Hope whatever spells or other abilities being used to bypass those walls are at will, or they are burning a lot of resources just to chase us. Save something for the battle, boys! Still a few coming. Let's see, we have about a half-mile range that can be fiddled with...how about a chute going about that far, with a trap door over it? They did take the time to cast Truesight...so it's a DM call whether or not they can see illusion made real for what they truly are. In either case, if they don't have good Dex and/or Perception, they might take a trip down, fast. Somehow or other, however, the party escapes, finding themselves deep within the dungeon, in...

THE LAIR OF THE LICH

Little spellcasting bugger has Truesight naturally, too. This would totally be a nasty, tough fight, particularly with the Lair abilities in play. Illusory Reality becomes more important here, using actions to try and trap the lich, or to provide cover for you and the party. Truesight shouldn't be able to see through things made real with Illusory Reality. It's also very possible to lose Mirage Arcane to a Dispel Magic. (Good time to break out your Counterspell!) But every time you can use an action to cost the lich a spell slot is a gain, especially if it also keeps the party from taking a direct attack. It isn't draining party resources, and it isn't like the Illusionist isn't still all but full up on other spells with much less debatable effects.

And don't forget that through all of this you also have a permanent, non-Concentration Major Image along for the ride, too.

My only real gripe with the Illusionist is that it seems much better as a Charisma based caster, with lots of Deception in there for the synergistic effect.

But that's the thing right there with Illusionist School abilities. They are wonderfully synergistic. Don't take them as stand alone pieces, look at the picture as a whole.

Sorry, this is my first post and I LOVE illusions and illusionists. Might have gotten a bit carried away.
 

Tormyr

Adventurer
*snip*

Sorry, this is my first post and I LOVE illusions and illusionists. Might have gotten a bit carried away.

Now that's the way to do a first post. Welcome to the boards. Shoot, all my illusionist did during the play test was create some women of the night to distract the guards until we sneaked by.
 

BedlamBlade

Villager
Heh, thanks. I would have posted a reply earlier, but I always read the forums on my phone, and no way was I going to type all that without a keyboard!
 

Smacked Fly

First Post
I know it has been a while since the last post

I really need to ask you guys why you are being so down on the level 14 ability of illusionists. While it is true that most of their abilities are sub-par, it is all made up for on this last one. It allows your wizard to singlehandedly disable any level of dragon with a single spell (if they do not counter it).
You could make an illusion of adamantium covering all but the stomach of this dragon and then make it real, you now have a dragon that is unable to move, unable to see you and therefore unable to target you. It is also unable to cast any spells with somatic or verbal components.
If you could use it to do damage then you could make black holes theoretically(if your character knew what one was) so that little addition to the rule is to stop you from destroying the world, and the campaign setting, in 1 minute flat.
 

I am designing my own campaign world, and with the release of 5e, I opted to use that ruleset (for the most part). With that in mind, I've been pouring through the PHB staring at classes and their archetypes, looking for outliers. That's when I came across the Illusionist. Don't get me wrong; they've always been weak. But even the Diviner got a very nice boost into the realm of play-ability.

Basically, I'm left wondering -- am I missing something in regards to the power of the Illusionist (as compared to other Wizards), or is this arcane tradition in need of a home-brew overhaul? And if you recommend an overhaul, do you have any ideas to increase their power or player attraction?

Are you kidding? Illusionists are awesome. E.g. Malleable Illusion + Seeming = turn your whole party into Mystique clones (super-spies). Malleable Illusion + Project Image = at-will virtual teleportation/scouting within 500 miles of your current location (subject to some restrictions). Malleable Illusion + Hallucinatory Terrain or Mirage Arcana = Inception. Malleable Illusion + Major Image VI = anything. Etc., etc. Plus all the normal wizard goodness like Evard's Black Tentacles, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, etc.

I'd love to play one sometime but so far I haven't. I do covet them though. Life Cleric 1/Illusionist X feels like it would be thematically appropriate for someone who prefers the indirect approach (deceive, evade) to the direct approach (kill and loot).
 

I only meant that you have as good of a chance at wasting them as snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Since it happens before the roll, the roll could have been in your favor anyway. Not a big issue, but a hit against it.

Think of Portent as a floating double-disadvantage on a roll, with extra efficiency due to advance knowledge. If I really, really need Orcus to fail his save against my True Polymorph, Portent lets me (sort of) force him to take the worst of three dice... except that I actually know two of the dice in advance and can save them for something else if I know that they were "too high" to be effective against him.
 

They pulled out crossbows. Guess it's time to spend an action for instant fortifications, with arrow slits, so the party can snipe back from awesome cover? Illusory Reality makes it real for 10 combat rounds. A few dozen more appear, making the odds increasingly bad. Well, if you have to retreat, they can't pursue for a minute or so, and nothing is stopping you from dropping new walls behind you as you flee. It only takes one action for the wall and one bonus action to make it real. Not to mention the terrain in front of the party is smooth going, while behind them it's all difficult terrain. Thanks Mirage Arcane and Malleable Illusions!

Do note though that Illusory Reality is usable only once per spell. If you make one wall real, you can't make another real unless you re-cast Mirage Arcana.
 

famousringo

First Post
I really need to ask you guys why you are being so down on the level 14 ability of illusionists. While it is true that most of their abilities are sub-par, it is all made up for on this last one. It allows your wizard to singlehandedly disable any level of dragon with a single spell (if they do not counter it).
You could make an illusion of adamantium covering all but the stomach of this dragon and then make it real, you now have a dragon that is unable to move, unable to see you and therefore unable to target you. It is also unable to cast any spells with somatic or verbal components.
If you could use it to do damage then you could make black holes theoretically(if your character knew what one was) so that little addition to the rule is to stop you from destroying the world, and the campaign setting, in 1 minute flat.
Illusionists are pretty strong. Not as strong as necromancers, who are so powerful that their mysterious death-defying powers apply even to internet forum threads, but pretty strong.

Yeah, I doubt any DM is going to let you create illusory singularities, but this example does a good job of illuminating the two biggest limitations on the power of illusions:

1. The player's imagination.
2. The DM's patience.

With an imaginative player, there's almost no limit to the dirty tricks you can pull off with illusions. But if you have a grumpy-pants DM, NPCs will somehow test the illusion until it fails every time.

So you need to be clever, and you need a DM who's willing to oblige you, at least a little. And then you need to be careful not to push that DM too far by trying to rupture space/time.
 

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