D&D General I'm a Fighter, not a Lover: Why the 1e Fighter was so Awesome

[James Gasik]

So as an experiment, I introduced an item into my 5e game somewhat based on the 3.5 Belt of Healing- the main difference being that the wearer can spend an action to spend one of it's 3 charges (regained after a short rest) to spend 1, 2, or 3 healing surges for healing.

To my amusement, much like drinking healing potions as an action, nobody seemed to excited about it (granted, it requires attunement, so that no doubt had something to do with it). Why? Because nobody wants to spend their precious actions on healing if they can get someone else to do it, letting them "do the thing" each turn without restraint!

I think this pretty much explains the issue with the game needing a healing class- everyone else gets to be cool and do the thing they built their character to do, and some other person gets to keep an eye on everyone's hit points. And most of the fun toys developers give to classes like the Cleric to get people to want them to play said class tends to make them want to do anything but heal- why should I cast Aid and Cure Wounds when I can wade into a group of enemies with Spirit Guardians? After all, dead enemies cannot deal damage (insert Starship Troopers meme here)!*

*Yeah, I'm using 5e as an example, but you can look at the Mythos Priests in 2e for similar results- worse, some of those Priests couldn't even cast healing spells, which completely boggles the mind! So to get you to play a Priest, God X gives you all the powers of another class, but doesn't let you cast healing spells...yeah, that's going to be so useful, lol.

 

[Zardnaar]

So as an experiment, I introduced an item into my 5e game somewhat based on the 3.5 Belt of Healing- the main difference being that the wearer can spend an action to spend one of it's 3 charges (regained after a short rest) to spend 1, 2, or 3 healing surges for healing.

To my amusement, much like drinking healing potions as an action, nobody seemed to excited about it (granted, it requires attunement, so that no doubt had something to do with it). Why? Because nobody wants to spend their precious actions on healing if they can get someone else to do it, letting them "do the thing" each turn without restraint!

I think this pretty much explains the issue with the game needing a healing class- everyone else gets to be cool and do the thing they built their character to do, and some other person gets to keep an eye on everyone's hit points. And most of the fun toys developers give to classes like the Cleric to get people to want them to play said class tends to make them want to do anything but heal- why should I cast Aid and Cure Wounds when I can wade into a group of enemies with Spirit Guardians? After all, dead enemies cannot deal damage (insert Starship Troopers meme here)!*

*Yeah, I'm using 5e as an example, but you can look at the Mythos Priests in 2e for similar results- worse, some of those Priests couldn't even cast healing spells, which completely boggles the mind! So to get you to play a Priest, God X gives you all the powers of another class, but doesn't let you cast healing spells...yeah, that's going to be so useful, lol.

Im thinking healing and buffing probably need to be bonus actions.

Even if you scaled the effect down.

Lesser restoration got used on Sunday in combat. Bonus action.

 

[Eric V]

Im thinking healing and buffing probably need to be bonus actions.

Didn't 4e have that?

 

[Staffan]

To my amusement, much like drinking healing potions as an action, nobody seemed to excited about it (granted, it requires attunement, so that no doubt had something to do with it). Why? Because nobody wants to spend their precious actions on healing if they can get someone else to do it, letting them "do the thing" each turn without restraint!

Which is why Healing Word and its ilk in 4e were minor actions (bonus actions in 5e parlance). Draw Steel does the same with the healing abilities of its healing classes. In 4e, Second Wind (spend your own healing surge in combat) was a major action and could be done once/encounter, whereas Draw Steel makes "Catch Breath" it a maneuver and unlimited (but there are plenty of other fun things to do with maneuvers, so it's not like it's costless).

4e clerics also had plenty of powers that combined a mediocre attack with a buff of some sort, along the lines of 5e's guiding bolt.

 

[Zardnaar]

Didn't 4e have that?

To sone extent yeah. Not sure if it was on everything.

 

[James Gasik]

Im thinking healing and buffing probably need to be bonus actions.

Even if you scaled the effect down.

Lesser restoration got used on Sunday in combat. Bonus action.

Or alternately, give Clerics spells that have healing as riders. Like say, concentration 1 minute, every time the Cleric hits with a melee attack, one ally within 30' can spend a healing surge and regain hit points with a bonus equal to their PB.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So as an experiment, I introduced an item into my 5e game somewhat based on the 3.5 Belt of Healing- the main difference being that the wearer can spend an action to spend one of it's 3 charges (regained after a short rest) to spend 1, 2, or 3 healing surges for healing.

To my amusement, much like drinking healing potions as an action, nobody seemed to excited about it (granted, it requires attunement, so that no doubt had something to do with it). Why? Because nobody wants to spend their precious actions on healing if they can get someone else to do it, letting them "do the thing" each turn without restraint!

I think this pretty much explains the issue with the game needing a healing class- everyone else gets to be cool and do the thing they built their character to do, and some other person gets to keep an eye on everyone's hit points. And most of the fun toys developers give to classes like the Cleric to get people to want them to play said class tends to make them want to do anything but heal- why should I cast Aid and Cure Wounds when I can wade into a group of enemies with Spirit Guardians? After all, dead enemies cannot deal damage (insert Starship Troopers meme here)!*

*Yeah, I'm using 5e as an example, but you can look at the Mythos Priests in 2e for similar results- worse, some of those Priests couldn't even cast healing spells, which completely boggles the mind! So to get you to play a Priest, God X gives you all the powers of another class, but doesn't let you cast healing spells...yeah, that's going to be so useful, lol.

I'm actually not a huge fan of in-combat healing anyway. I really don't care for the "whack-a-mole" effect it often engenders.

 

[James Gasik]

I'm actually not a huge fan of in-combat healing anyway. I really don't care for the "whack-a-mole" effect it often engenders.

Well, when monsters can bring you from high hit points to 0 in a single turn, it's kind of necessary, or you quickly have a TPK. AC become irrelevant after awhile, I mean, when your CR 9's for example start looking like this:

"Multiattack. The giant makes two attacks, using Flame Sword or Hammer Throw in any combination.

Flame Sword. Melee Attack Roll:+11, reach 10 ft. Hit: 21 (4d6 + 7) Slashing damage plus 10 (3d6) Fire damage.

Hammer Throw. Ranged Attack Roll:+11, range 60/240 ft. Hit: 23 (3d10 + 7) Bludgeoning damage plus 4 (1d8) Fire damage, and the target is pushed up to 15 feet straight away from the giant and has Disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn."

It's suddenly pretty easy to see that every melee class either needs A) a built-in way to mitigate damage when it's not their turn, or you need combat healing (or something similar, like limited damage reduction or temporary hit points).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, when monsters can bring you from high hit points to 0 in a single turn, it's kind of necessary, or you quickly have a TPK. AC become irrelevant after awhile, I mean, when your CR 9's for example start looking like this:

"Multiattack. The giant makes two attacks, using Flame Sword or Hammer Throw in any combination.

Flame Sword. Melee Attack Roll:+11, reach 10 ft. Hit: 21 (4d6 + 7) Slashing damage plus 10 (3d6) Fire damage.

Hammer Throw. Ranged Attack Roll:+11, range 60/240 ft. Hit: 23 (3d10 + 7) Bludgeoning damage plus 4 (1d8) Fire damage, and the target is pushed up to 15 feet straight away from the giant and has Disadvantage on the next attack roll it makes before the end of its next turn."

It's suddenly pretty easy to see that every melee class either needs A) a built-in way to mitigate damage when it's not their turn, or you need combat healing (or something similar, like limited damage reduction or temporary hit points).

I prefer option 1 over option 2.

 

[James Gasik]

I prefer option 1 over option 2.

I wouldn't mind that either. But that's not how the game is really built. Most of the classes that get good "I don't take damage at this time" abilities are second-line or even back-line types (Rogue, arcane casters with Shield or Silvery Barbs). You have to literally spec into it as a Fighter, either by taking the cruddy +PB to AC Dueling Feat, or becoming a Battlemaster and throwing one of your mastery dice at an attack.

And if players do go out of their way to get things like shield, I see a ton of DM's gripe about it. I think it's a psychological thing- we'd rather do a boatload of damage to a raging Barbarian, despite the fact he's basically ignoring half of it, than attack a player and have them turn a hit into a miss, lol.

Honestly maybe the solution is to cut monster damage or increase player hit points if you want to shed in-combat healing. Unfortunately, having Clerics heal people is so ingrained into the D&D experience that we're stuck on this swinging pendulum between "healing too good" and "healing not good enough", because the developers can't seem find the right balance.

I'd prefer a design that just says "you are assumed to start every fight at full hit points, but sources of in-combat healing are exceedingly scarce", but that path was soundly rejected, so here we are.