immediate and Swift actions

[Nagol]

So what does using the character definition of a Round give us? Recall a round is usually "a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round".

Character A takes a full round's worth of actions (including a Swift action) on initiative count N. He ends his round.

On Initiative count N-1, the situation changes and the character wants to use an Immediate action outside his turn. He can, but at the sacrifice of his next Immediate action on his next round.

 

[kexmal]

We all should not conflate spell rounds and Rounds capitol R... Yes I use true strike then it lasts 1 rouund meaning a spell round it lasts until the END of my next turn... BUt a round is a round in terms of this discussion meaning round 1 starts at first INIt and it ends at last INIt clear enough right? I thgink I can find RAW for this as its obvious and I know ive read it but dont want to look at the books to support this obvious thing that D&D supports: spell rounds are diff than rounds capitol R...

Example: INIT 20, 18, 5: Round 1 starts at INIT 20 ends at INIT 5... But if INIT 18 caster casts a spell that last 1 round that SPELL lasts until END of INIT 18... clear enough and true

As a note AoO's are not important AoOs's reset after each Round capitol R... Meaning I am INIT 10, top INIT is 20, I AoO an INIT 18... Cant AoO (without complex ref etc) Until NEXT round at INIT 20 or lower... clear enough right?
Obviouslt flat footed an things compicate but imagine no one is surpirsed or flat footed on this round. Its NOT your round that resets AoOs it the Round capitol R or else you coulnt AoO a person with higher INIT than you if you AoO a person the PREVIOUS round that makes no sense ytou can AoO even if you AoO even when your TURN hasnt came around so Round capitol R is diff than Turn based PC rounds... Flatfooted and Surprised etc aside...

 

[Nagol]

We all should not conflate spell rounds and Rounds capitol R... Yes I use true strike then it lasts 1 rouund meaning a spell round it lasts until the END of my next turn... BUt a round is a round in terms of this discussion meaning round 1 starts at first INIt and it ends at last INIt clear enough right? I thgink I can find RAW for this as its obvious and I know ive read it but dont want to look at the books to support this obvious thing that D&D supports: spell rounds are diff than rounds capitol R...

Example: INIT 20, 18, 5: Round 1 starts at INIT 20 ends at INIT 5... But if INIT 18 caster casts a spell that last 1 round that SPELL lasts until END of INIT 18... clear enough and true

No. That is not what the SRD says. The Rules Compendium is silent on the definition of a Round -- I just checked.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm

The Combat Round

Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world. A round presents an opportunity for each character involved in a combat situation to take an action.

Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)

For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

Although the period from highest to lowest Init represents one definition of a round the typical understanding expected is from Init to Init.

 

[kexmal]

No. That is not what the SRD says. The Rules Compendium is silent on the definition of a Round -- I just checked.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm



Although the period from highest to lowest Init represents one definition of a round the typical understanding expected is from Init to Init.

So you saying this is possible?: round 1 INIT 20 guy move im INIT 10 i take an AoO... INIT 10 comes around i do my thing... INIT 20 comes around and I take anther AoO on INIT 20 guy... ithatis possilbe... BUT If what you are saying is true then... crazy things happen: like this INIT 20 Im INIT 10 I tkake an AoO... My INIT comes around my AoO's Reset then I can tkae an AoO on INIT 5 guy??? that is NOT true and I know other text supports this.. rounds end at end of INIT... that is for sure true what you quote is out of context im sure... Can only take one AoO per ROUND not per personal round cause if AoO's reset at end of MY TURN I could do two AoO's in one round

 

[kexmal]

HAHA you totally misquoted read this (the sentence above what you quoted or should I say you selectively interpreted):Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)

How is that not clear as the day is long? THe ROUND starts at HIGHEST INIT...

 

[Nagol]

So you saying this is ipossible?: round 1 INIT 20 guy move im INIT 10 i take an AoO... INIT 10 comes around i do my thing... INIT 20 comes around and I take anther AoO on INIT 20 guy... ithatis possilbe... BUT If what you are saying is true then... crazy things happen: like this INIT 20 Im INIT 10 I tkake an AoO... My INIT comes around my AoO's Reset then I can tkae an AoO on INIT 5 guy??? that is NOT true and I know other text supports this.. rounds end at end of INIT... that is for sure true what you quote is out of context im sure... Can only take one AoO per ROUND not per personal round cause if AoO's reset at end of MY TURN I could do two AoO's in one round

Yes. If rounds are run that way, AoO and Immediate actions have the same value to everyone as opposed to high initiatives being penalised.

Examine the following combat between A and B both using the standard rules. A rolls 20 initiative and B rolls 10:

Initiative

20 A goes, B cannot AoO because flatfooted
10 B goes, A may AoO

20 A goes, B may AoO
10 B goes, A may AoO

...

repeat


Now add a third character C. C rolls a 5 for initiative

Initiative

20 A goes, B, C cannot AoO because flatfooted
10 B goes, A may AoO, C is flatfooted
05 C goes, A,B may AoO (A cannot if already used against B above)


20 A goes, B,C may AoO (B cannot if already used against C above)
10 B goes, A,C may AoO (C cannot if already used against A above)
05 C goes, A,B may AoO (A cannot if already used against B above)

...

repeat

 

[kexmal]

Yes. If rounds are run that way, AoO and Immediate actions have the same value to everyone as opposed to high initiatives being penalised.

Examine the following combat between A and B both using the standard rules. A rolls 20 initiative and B rolls 10:

Initiative

20 A goes, B cannot AoO because flatfooted
10 B goes, A may AoO

20 A goes, B may AoO
10 B goes, A may AoO

...

repeat


Now add a third character C. C rolls a 5 for initiative

Initiative

20 A goes, B, C cannot AoO because flatfooted
10 B goes, A may AoO, C is flatfooted
05 C goes, A,B may AoO (A cannot if already used against B above)


20 A goes, B,C may AoO (B cannot if already used against C above)
10 B goes, A,C may AoO (C cannot if already used against A above)
05 C goes, A,B may AoO (A cannot if already used against B above)

...

repeat

What does that have anything to do with that quote I just drew from RAW? You cannot take two AoO's in one round obviously what I am saying if AoOs reset at YOUR TURn then you could BUT that is NOT NOT RAW
man no contest I am definietely right ROUNDS start at highest INIT how can you argue? You can give me a pretty table but that doesnt mean anything (or maybe we are agreeing with each other if so then yes I agree if not then dont know what to say) obviously you made it to compocated why A, B and C when your point could have been made with two things and A and a B you complicated the whole scene in my mind and its not enough for me to read it over like a hound... If you think you can make two AoO's in one round your wrong if you think rounds start atr YOUR INIT count your wrong talk in the abstract to me... BUT i am telling you ROUNDS capitol R start at highest INIT

 

[Nagol]

HAHA you totally misquoted read this (the sentence above what you quoted or should I say you selectively interpreted):Each round’s activity begins with the character with the highest initiative result and then proceeds, in order, from there. Each round of a combat uses the same initiative order. When a character’s turn comes up in the initiative sequence, that character performs his entire round’s worth of actions. (For exceptions, see Attacks of Opportunity and Special Initiative Actions.)

How is that not clear as the day is long? THe ROUND starts at HIGHEST INIT...

I did not misquote. I gave the quote in full and provided a link to the original source. You are ignoring the final paragraph -- which happens to be the one where the description of what the typical usage of the term means in the rules.

Your interpretation (rounds are discrete units with a beginning and an end without crossover) is simplistic and introduces several anomalies into the system that do not exist if the typical usage of the term is used. Notably, characters with high initiative have a much more likely chance to receive AoO under this system than using the typical usage.

 

[Nagol]

What does that have anything to do with that quote I just drew from RAW? You cannot take two AoO's in one round obviously what I am saying if AoOs reset at YOUR TURn then you could BUT that is NOT NOT RAW
man no contest I am definietely right ROUNDS start at highest INIT how can you argue? You can give me a pretty table but that doesnt mean anything (or maybe we are agreeing with each other if so then yes I agree if not then dont know what to say)

You cannot take two AoO in a span of time from one initiative count to the same initiative count in the next round. Whether two occur within one high to low count is immaterial.

 

[kexmal]

You cannot take two AoO in a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Whether two occur within one high to low count is immaterial.

Thank you mt point exaclty my point is that a ROUND starts on the highest INIT so thank you Nagol