Immortals Handbook (aka The Worship Points System)

[Upper_Krust]

Announcement

Hey all!

Should have posted this earlier but I was in the central library doing some more research.

Anyway, two points.

Firstly, the Immortals Handbook is being reworked to be 100% compatible with Deities & Demigods.

The reasoning behind this decision is that, even though the bulk of the work is modular, it seemed self-defeating to deliver alternate (however similar they were) rules on divinity in light of the fact that 99% of people interested in the Immortals Handbook will buy Deities & Demigods anyway. It would be illogical to confuse such issues unnecessarily. Much better to pool all ideas.

What this means is that the work can't be released until Deities & Demigods enters the SRD (System Reference Document) which I have been told (by WotC 'high-ups') will occur (approx.) one month after the books release - which I think is due for the second week of April.

This does not lessen the work to any extent, all the same ideas will be present; don't worry.

The second point is that the work is being carved into smaller peices; at least in .pdf format.

The reasoning here being simply that the unnecessarily large size of the download (and printing) was almost certainly alienating many people.

Preliminary reorganisation stands as follows:

#1. Faith/Divinity etc. (96 pages)
#2. Campaigns/Adventures etc. (48 pages)
#3. Magic/Magic Items etc. (48 pages)
#4. Monsters/Templates etc. (48 pages)

Collectively these could still be combined into a 264 page (256 + 8) hardcopy by the publisher.

The bulk of the above is already written so much of whats left will simply be a matter of conversion and tweaking.

I hope the revelation hasn't unduly alienated any of you; I know many of you were looking forward to the rules in a few short weeks - but likewise you will know me well enough to understand that I didn't make such a decision lightly!

As ever, if you have any comments feel free to post here or email me.

Yours sincerely - U_K

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Gez mate!

Is it about what you've emailed me ? (I guess so.)

As I said, it is -- I think -- an expected and normal move. But I do see the possible negative aspect of that decision, unless you go with the fix I have proposed that should solve the only possible problem. I'm wondering what do you think about it ?

(It's hard, and fun, not to put spoilers.)

Perhaps I should have made you sign a non-disclosure agreement!

 

[poilbrun]

I can understand the fact that the book needs to be 100% compatible with D&Dg, however, this means that we won't see the IH before a long, long time... Even if they plan to enter this book in the SRD, I'm pretty sure that they won't do it as fast as you said. It's been said for quite a long time that the manual of the planes would be put in the SRD, but nothing has yet happened, so I don't see why Deities & Demigods would take precedence over that other book

As for the division of the work in various pdf, whereas I can understand the need for "lighter" files, that means that I'll have to buy four books separately, which will cost more. That won't matter much as I'm sure the work is worth it, but that might create a problem for others.

BTW, wouldn't it be possible to release a first set of rules first, then when D&Dg is released, release version 2.0 (a bit like Vacuum Elemental is doing for Timeline), the same version that will be in the hardcover book? It would solve the problem of people (like me) who want to use your work as soon as possible, but think it is a good idea to have 100% compatible with D&Dg...

 

[poilbrun]

Re: Announcement

The second point is that the work is being carved into smaller peices; at least in .pdf format.

The reasoning here being simply that the unnecessarily large size of the download (and printing) was almost certainly alienating many people.

Preliminary reorganisation stands as follows:

#1. Faith/Divinity etc. (96 pages)
#2. Campaigns/Adventures etc. (48 pages)
#3. Magic/Magic Items etc. (48 pages)
#4. Monsters/Templates etc. (48 pages)

Collectively these could still be combined into a 264 page (256 + 8) hardcopy by the publisher.[/B]

While re-reading your post, the math struck me : 96+48+48+48=240 pages... What are the other 24 pages?

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Hi,

Oh, well, I kind of guessed this decision long time ago.

I don't know if this is good or bad idea yet, and I doubt Deities & Demigods will be in SRD as soon as they say or as you seem to think. I might be surprised, I hardly ever am, but who knows.

I like variation myself, and I find fact that you are bending toward their ideas more fit for wording 'self-defeating' than not doing that. Hehe, but my use of english language is not perfect, so it might just be that.

I don't mean I find this bad thing, actually it is pretty much neutral thing for me. Just hoping you don't trash your more cool ideas.

Splitting downloads into chapters is sort of good idea, and no problem if they are allowed to buy together too.

Hehe, prepare to be assimilated by WotC, there is no saving throw.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey poilbrun mate!

I can understand the fact that the book needs to be 100% compatible with D&Dg, however, this means that we won't see the IH before a long, long time... Even if they plan to enter this book in the SRD, I'm pretty sure that they won't do it as fast as you said.

If there is one thing I have learned writing 'this'; its that the best laid plans often go astray.

It's been said for quite a long time that the manual of the planes would be put in the SRD, but nothing has yet happened, so I don't see why Deities & Demigods would take precedence over that other book.

Well I have spoken with Anthony Valterra himself and he (while unable to give a date) was candid enough to reveal they wanted to get D&Dg into the SRD as soon as possible; certainly much faster than the Psionics Handbook was integrated!

As for the division of the work in various pdf, whereas I can understand the need for "lighter" files, that means that I'll have to buy four books separately, which will cost more. That won't matter much as I'm sure the work is worth it, but that might create a problem for others.

I think though the sum will be slightly more that it won't be 'noticeably' more.

BTW, wouldn't it be possible to release a first set of rules first, then when D&Dg is released, release version 2.0 (a bit like Vacuum Elemental is doing for Timeline), the same version that will be in the hardcover book? It would solve the problem of people (like me) who want to use your work as soon as possible,

This was what Gez also suggested.

But it is sort of impractical.

To explain; I never had any trouble with 'worship point' specific issues; it was the divinity issues that were responsible for slowing my progress. I don't mean glaring major issues, but perfectionist that I aspire to be, it was ever the little things that inevitably add up to become more of a problem than the sum of their parts. Not that these wouldn't have been sorted, but for me to still release my original rules would mean (from my perspective) squandering most of March which I could be devoting to making the 'actual' rules even better. Which is why I am reticent to do it.

but think it is a good idea to have 100% compatible with D&Dg...

I agree. Contradicting (at this stage) D&Dg is almost akin to contradicting the D20 rules themselves.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Re: Announcement

Hello mate!

While re-reading your post, the math struck me : 96+48+48+48=240 pages... What are the other 24 pages?

My head has been even further up my loop than usual these last few days...

...but I was messing about with a number of formats for the first section to see what was best and had initially concluded between 80 and 112 pages, hence the miscalculation! :+)

The additional '8' pages were things like character sheets, (extended) contents, index etc.

When I say something is 48 pages I mean 48 pages of material exclusive of things like contents and d20 license.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi,

Hi Zelda mate!

Oh, well, I kind of guessed this decision long time ago.

Oh did you indeed!

Clever and cute then...I saw your picture in the General Discussion Forum!

*Blows Zelda a kiss*

I don't know if this is good or bad idea yet, and I doubt Deities & Demigods will be in SRD as soon as they say or as you seem to think. I might be surprised, I hardly ever am, but who knows.

I am ever the optimist - so I will take WotC at their 'speculative' word.

I like variation myself, and I find fact that you are bending toward their ideas more fit for wording 'self-defeating' than not doing that. Hehe, but my use of english language is not perfect, so it might just be that.

'Self-deprecating' is probably what your implying.

I don't mean I find this bad thing, actually it is pretty much neutral thing for me. Just hoping you don't trash your more cool ideas.

All the cool ideas will still be intact!

Instead of having either my rules for divinity or WotC's rules, now you will have both complimenting each other (without having to adapt them at all).

Splitting downloads into chapters is sort of good idea, and no problem if they are allowed to buy together too.

Thanks.

Hehe, prepare to be assimilated by WotC, there is no saving throw.

Spell resistance is futile!

 

[poilbrun]

To explain; I never had any trouble with 'worship point' specific issues; it was the divinity issues that were responsible for slowing my progress. I don't mean glaring major issues, but perfectionist that I aspire to be, it was ever the little things that inevitably add up to become more of a problem than the sum of their parts. Not that these wouldn't have been sorted, but for me to still release my original rules would mean (from my perspective) squandering most of March which I could be devoting to making the 'actual' rules even better. Which is why I am reticent to do it.

That's too bad... My players will soon reach epic levels, and I would have liked to see the rules before deciding how to decide the way of handling epic levels (they reached level 19 today, nearly got killed by a Balor death throes abilty!). Are you sure you couldn't work something out for the poor little guys like me who desperately want to see the work? Furthermore, it will ruin a bit of my fun to see your work only once it is 100% compatible with D&Dg, I won't be able to check if you and WotC had the same ideas. Anyways, just want to let you know that I'll be among the first ones to get it once it is released... but I would have liked to have seen its release date sooner than it will be.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey poil brun mate!

That's too bad... My players will soon reach epic levels, and I would have liked to see the rules before deciding how to decide the way of handling epic levels (they reached level 19 today, nearly got killed by a Balor death throes abilty!). Are you sure you couldn't work something out for the poor little guys like me who desperately want to see the work?

Email me and I will explain the concept behind progression (though not the mechanics).

Furthermore, it will ruin a bit of my fun to see your work only once it is 100% compatible with D&Dg, I won't be able to check if you and WotC had the same ideas.

I pretty much know about 50% of the WotC Epic and Deity mechanics.

The differences are generally minor, but insidious enough to constitute a distraction.

Anyways, just want to let you know that I'll be among the first ones to get it once it is released...

Thanks!

but I would have liked to have seen its release date sooner than it will be.

I promise I won't waste the interim period.

In fact I already have some great new ideas I want to incorporate! (remember that library research yesterday)