Immortals Handbook - Ascension Discussion

Hey dante mate! :)

dante58701 said:
Of course if an actual DM is involved, anything with abilities far exceeding an immortal will surely kill said immortal in one round (or less with transtemporal).

This is just more munchkinism. Any rule, no matter how well balanced can easily be abused without proper Dungeon Mastering. This is why we have DM's...to kill off smartalecky PCs that have extremly deadly and unrealistic combinations of abilities.

Example: I am a 1st level Human that has been granted the Hero-Deity template.

This is not something I recommend. Its pretty much rulebreaking in all but name.

I trade in all my artifacts for more divine abilities and pump up my aura.

What artifacts?

You would be ECL 9. You wouldn't have any artifacts to trade.

Then I take the Double Death portfolios and pump up my save DC via various other feats and divine abilities.

The DEATH effect portion of my aura now drops even gods like flies and I have no more friends because I killed everyone who approached me.

I don't see how you would get those save DCs high enough to worry any epic character.

Rectification: A Barbarian Fertility god with Double Fertility portfolios comes along and rends my head off after he makes his pumped up saving throw against my Death effect.

We should just assume that happens before you create such a character in the first place. ;p

In short...anything ridiculous can be overcome.

Including this example? :p

SIDENOTE FOR KRUSTY - ABADOX...as in ABADOX for NES. What exactly would that nasty flemball of a planetoid creature be? Anyone interested in writing it up? A lot of people here are interested in seeing it and it's inner creatures written up. Purely for horror and nostalgia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abadox

Okay, never heard of it. *Goes and reads information* Sounds like a planet sized Genius Loci. Ergo, one of those things near impossible to stat in 3E. Also sounds a bit like Ego the Living Planet. I think battling its eEcosuystem might be more fun than the monster itself.
 

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Belzamus said:
Would anyone happen to know how the benefit of Ninth Sense is manifested? What exactly does it do?
easiest to assume it works just like Seventh Sense except instead of replaying the round you replay the minute/week/day
 

So, allow the Immortal to replay 48 days of combat per day? :D (assuming First One) Or should I just say that he can replay every round of combat?

I have a few more ideas/questions too:

1. What would be the best way to implement an ability that increased the damage die of your effects each time you took it? Cosmic up to d10 and then Trans up to d20 and d100 I was thinking. That still might be overpowered though. Maybe only up to d20?

2. Has anyone ever worked up or brainstormed some divine/cosmic/trancendental abilities for Immortals with integrated warlock levels? I was thinking of increasing ELritch blast ratio (divine, =to HD, cosmic = to HD, trans., = to HD x2), allowing them to use as many Eldritch Blasts in a round as they have attacks (cosmic?), and increasing Eldritch Blast damage dice (D8,D10,D12, Divine, d20 Cosmic, d100 Trancendental). ANd would Auto Metamagic Capacity apply to Eldritch Blasts automatically or would I need another divine/cosmic ability for that?

Thanks
 

Belzamus said:
1. What would be the best way to implement an ability that increased the damage die of your effects each time you took it? Cosmic up to d10 and then Trans up to d20 and d100 I was thinking. That still might be overpowered though. Maybe only up to d20?
I'd say "overpowered" or not would depend on precisely what you mean by "effects" in that sentence. So what do you mean? Weapons, natural attacks, your Divine-ability Effects such as Negative Energy Effect or Writhing Effect, or something else?

Belzamus said:
2. Has anyone ever worked up or brainstormed some divine/cosmic/trancendental abilities for Immortals with integrated warlock levels? I was thinking of increasing ELritch blast ratio (divine, =to HD, cosmic = to HD, trans., = to HD x2), allowing them to use as many Eldritch Blasts in a round as they have attacks (cosmic?), and increasing Eldritch Blast damage dice (D8,D10,D12, Divine, d20 Cosmic, d100 Trancendental). ANd would Auto Metamagic Capacity apply to Eldritch Blasts automatically or would I need another divine/cosmic ability for that?
Nobody's done it yet that I'm aware of, but it sounds like a great idea! Every character who gets up to Immortal level is going to want abilities to help their class, and I know the players in my games were loudly proclaiming disappointment with not having any psionic options before UK put in his Psionics Appendix. We were actually getting ready to house-rule some in. But one of the characters in my second group (also all Divine now) is a Warlock, and I'm sure he'd love having some new options. :cool: EDIT: This is the thread for discussing such additions best.

I'd say allowing the character to use iterative attacks for Eldritch Blasts would be Divine at best- it really isn't that powerful when you think about what other options a divine Warlock could have. The one increasing Eldritch Blast damage to equal HD strikes me as nastier, though playtesting would bear that one out. Did you mean for the Divine and Cosmic versions of that to be identical, BTW? :) The one increasing the damage dice sounds reasonable to me, though perhaps with even less steps- and perhaps the lowest tier (to d8) could even be an Epic Feat with serious prereqs.

Automatic Metamagic Capacity says it applies to spell-like abilities, so as written it would work on Eldritch Blasts; however, the requirements for the feat are "Ability to cast spells at the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class, four metamagic feats," and Metamagic feats don't apply to spell-likes as written. So you'll have to either change the prereqs to allow the feats such as "Quicken Spell-like ability" and "Maximize spell-like ability" which every minimally-optimized Warlock combat build has, to work, or make a new feat and say that Automatic Metamagic Capacity doesn't apply to spell-likes (which, IMO, is the correct course since as it's written now the addition of spell-like abilities to its mix makes little or no sense).

If brainstorming things for Warlocks will be starting there, we might want to try coming up with stuff for the other new rules systems too, like the martial adepts from Book of Nine Swords, the Binder from Tome of Magic, or incarnum.
 
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Ok, I'll take the Warlock abilities over there once I work up a basic sketch (which shouldn't be too long since I need to work them out before I can do my next IH write-up)

For the Effects, I meant [Effect] Abilities. I think it might be too powerful, but some of them just seem so inferior to using a melee attack instead against an equally powerful opponent. Was that the intention behind them? To use against hordes of weak opponents? I mean, I just statted up a 320HD Demiurge with Perfect Annihilating Mastery. So, his Annihilating Beam does 320d6 permanent damage, which his primary opponent can easily heal as a free action. I mean, 1,920 isn't that much damage when your opponent has 800K hp. So, would a Cosmic ability working it up to d20s in increments (d8,d10,d2, etc) be unbalanced? I mean, obviously the Telurric, Vengeful, and Quantum Effects could help in this regard somewhat. I was just surpirsed that such an ability wasn't already in their somewhere.

And allowing iterative attacks with EB wouldn't be overpowered with, say, Ultimate Weapon Specialization? Maybe not at that level, actually. Of course, that's a function of the trans. ability anyways, not the one I suggest, so I guess I'll go with Divine. I've seen that as an Epic Feat before, but I think for IH purposes, it would work better as a divine ability for the Warlock.

I think I got lost somewhere on that progression for the other one though. Maybe Divine=HD, COsmic=2xHD or 4xHd, Trans=4xHD or 8xHD? <Looks at Cogency and Perfect Smiting>

On Automatic Metamagic, what I meant was, say I'm desgining a 200HD Old One with 100 Integrated Warlock Levels who has Nescient and takes Auto Metamagic like 90 times for use with his Alter Reality. Does that work on EB? It might need the pre-reqs modified for epic warlocks in general though
 

Howdy Belamus dude! :)

Belzamus said:
So, allow the Immortal to replay 48 days of combat per day? :D (assuming First One) Or should I just say that he can replay every round of combat?

Probably better to just assume it knows the opponent's tactics and let it adapt/have prepped against them.

I have a few more ideas/questions too:

Fire away.

1. What would be the best way to implement an ability that increased the damage die of your effects each time you took it? Cosmic up to d10 and then Trans up to d20 and d100 I was thinking. That still might be overpowered though. Maybe only up to d20?

I think most of the effects are already broken down in this manner. For instance Cosmic is a cosmic version of Divine, Transcendental [Effect] is a transcendental version of cosmic effect.

Each tier gives roughly a x5 jump.

2. Has anyone ever worked up or brainstormed some divine/cosmic/trancendental abilities for Immortals with integrated warlock levels? I was thinking of increasing ELritch blast ratio (divine, =to HD, cosmic = to HD, trans., = to HD x2), allowing them to use as many Eldritch Blasts in a round as they have attacks (cosmic?), and increasing Eldritch Blast damage dice (D8,D10,D12, Divine, d20 Cosmic, d100 Trancendental). ANd would Auto Metamagic Capacity apply to Eldritch Blasts automatically or would I need another divine/cosmic ability for that?

Thanks

I don't have the appropriate books, so I don't know much about the Warlock, sorry. Hopefully someone else will help.
 

Regarding Apocrypha...

Are you going to add nondetection to it? I recall you said you were going to add something to it to make it more useful.

Regarding Apostasy...

Since Apostasy is purely defensive in nature, does it protect you from the various detect [alignment] abilities and spells?

Regarding Appearance notations...

Are these mandatory or merely flavor text?

It'd be a mite inconvenient for a deity with the Fire portfolio if his flaming arms set his spellbooks on fire, or every parchment or scroll he picked up. It'd also be a mite inconvenient for a deity of FEAR to be constantly radiating a fear aura that effects even those he has no desire to frighten. Just some examples.

Regarding Appearance notations...

Are these mandatory or merely flavor text?

What if you like the way you look before you became divine and have no desire to look like a complete goon. Example: Cleric w/Double Stoicism Portfolios. She was pretty...then she started to grow a beard and her skin got all leathery like a cows arse.

It would also be REALLY inconvenient to polymorph into a duck and have to look charbroiled just because you have the Death and Fire Portfolios. So much for the disguise and any attempt at pretending to be normal.

On the other hand...what if you WANT to be made completely of fire and have only a single Fire Portfolio?

Also...

Regarding vulnerabilities...

Can you pay in divine slots to remove said vulnerabilities? How exactly would this work?
 
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Hey dante mate! :)

dante58701 said:
Regarding Apocrypha...

Are you going to add nondetection to it? I recall you said you were going to add something to it to make it more useful.

I can't remember. :o

Regarding Apostasy...

Since Apostasy is purely defensive in nature, does it protect you from the various detect [alignment] abilities and spells?

Yes.

Regarding Appearance notations...

Are these mandatory or merely flavor text?

It'd be a mite inconvenient for a deity with the Fire portfolio if his flaming arms set his spellbooks on fire, or every parchment or scroll he picked up. It'd also be a mite inconvenient for a deity of FEAR to be constantly radiating a fear aura that effects even those he has no desire to frighten. Just some examples.

They are mandatory, but the fire (for example) doesn't need to be real fire, it won't damage someone when you touch them, unless you want it too in which case just treat it as normal fire (thus as a natural effect it won't harm immortals).

Regarding Appearance notations...

Are these mandatory or merely flavor text?

What if you like the way you look before you became divine and have no desire to look like a complete goon. Example: Cleric w/Double Stoicism Portfolios. She was pretty...then she started to grow a beard and her skin got all leathery like a cows arse.

If her prettiness was important she would take the love/beauty portfolio rather than the double stoicism portfolio.

It would also be REALLY inconvenient to polymorph into a duck and have to look charbroiled just because you have the Death and Fire Portfolios.

That sounds pretty cool actually.

So much for the disguise and any attempt at pretending to be normal.

Which is generally only the providence of tricksters/illustionists, who we can presume could shapechange without retaining their portfolio based characteristics.

On the other hand...what if you WANT to be made completely of fire and have only a single Fire Portfolio?

Then I'd say you need to become a fire elemental or some overtly fire based race to start with.

Also...

Regarding vulnerabilities...

Can you pay in divine slots to remove said vulnerabilities? How exactly would this work?

If you have the portfolio, you have the vulnerability.
 

Tell me, U_K, did anyone ever tell that speed of light is not 106 thousand miles per round, it's 1117694 miles or 5,901,426,339 feet?
 
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