D&D 5E Immunity to Charm, Command spell

[Curmudjinn]

I dig the Ferris Bueller gif, Kobold Stew. I actually drive by that house every year when the family drives by the Lincoln Park christmas lights north of Chicago. It's on Beech street, right off of the lake. It's been for sale for like a decade.

Good work on referencing conditions. The word escaped me when I wrote my piece a minute ago.

 

[steeldragons]

Yeah. That's all good. Like I said, it's open enough for everyone to play the way they want.

I would simply retort that it 'makes sense' to me that the Doppleganger's natural/traditional ESP ability gives them enough mental/psychic fortitude that they are not susceptible to mental compulsion...which are simply stronger/more direct Charm ability...they're all Enchantment spells...in the parlance of AD&D, they were immune to "Sleep, Charm and Hold spells"....enchantments.

So yes. I would say something that is immune to the "Charmed condition" is immune to the "soft charm" of a Charm Person or Sleep and the "hard/direct" charm or a "momentary Charmed condition" of a compulsion like Hold Person or Command...So, yeah, it is effectively immune to most Enchantment type magic...or, at the very least, would get some bonus (Advantage, perhaps?) against them.

 

[1of3]

"Soft charm" is not the right concept in 5e. There are spells that apply the Charmed condition and those that do not. One of the spells that apply Charmed is Dominate Person which used to be a Compulsion.

 

[DreamChaser]

Yeah. That's all good. Like I said, it's open enough for everyone to play the way they want.

I would simply retort that it 'makes sense' to me that the Doppleganger's natural/traditional ESP ability gives them enough mental/psychic fortitude that they are not susceptible to mental compulsion...which are simply stronger/more direct Charm ability...they're all Enchantment spells...in the parlance of AD&D, they were immune to "Sleep, Charm and Hold spells"....enchantments.

So yes. I would say something that is immune to the "Charmed condition" is immune to the "soft charm" of a Charm Person or Sleep and the "hard/direct" charm or a "momentary Charmed condition" of a compulsion like Hold Person or Command...So, yeah, it is effectively immune to most Enchantment type magic...or, at the very least, would get some bonus (Advantage, perhaps?) against them.

That is a fairly massive expansion on the immunity. It appears that you'd interpret it as applying to any effect that would fool or compel them. I think the intent is that--with their ability to read minds--they would know if they were being influenced by someone to believe something other than they normally would. (e.g. charmed). Something that overwhelms their independent will (a compulsion) would not apply. A creature hit by a compulsion generally knows they are affected: It just doesn't help.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah. That's all good. Like I said, it's open enough for everyone to play the way they want.

I would simply retort that it 'makes sense' to me that the Doppleganger's natural/traditional ESP ability gives them enough mental/psychic fortitude that they are not susceptible to mental compulsion...which are simply stronger/more direct Charm ability...they're all Enchantment spells...in the parlance of AD&D, they were immune to "Sleep, Charm and Hold spells"....enchantments.

So yes. I would say something that is immune to the "Charmed condition" is immune to the "soft charm" of a Charm Person or Sleep and the "hard/direct" charm or a "momentary Charmed condition" of a compulsion like Hold Person or Command...So, yeah, it is effectively immune to most Enchantment type magic...or, at the very least, would get some bonus (Advantage, perhaps?) against them.

That's a pretty massive expansion on what I think is a pretty clear ability. After all, it's specifically a condition immunity that renders it immune to the charmed condition, which is explicitly described alongside the other conditions. In the DM's Basic PDF, in the section describing how to read a monster, it specifically says:

If a monster is immune to a game effect that isn't considered damage or a condition, it has a special trait.

Since the doppelganger's immunity to charm is under "Condition Immunities", I think the RAW is pretty clear on this. Obviously, YMMV, and play what you like, but I do think you're reading that immunity far more broadly than is intended.

 

[steeldragons]

Ok. Ok. I GIVE. They are immune to being Charmed and nothing else.

Brain-lightning strike: create a "Greater Doppleganger" that has total psychic immunity from all enchantments, compulsions and domination...a "Dopplegang-est" perhaps...ok name needs work/thought...but the idea is a good one.

 

[the Jester]

Ok. Ok. I GIVE. They are immune to being Charmed and nothing else.

Brain-lightning strike: create a "Greater Doppleganger" that has total psychic immunity from all enchantments, compulsions and domination...a "Dopplegang-est" perhaps...ok name needs work/thought...but the idea is a good one.

LOL, I didn't mean to badger you!

That said, the greater doppelganger is a long-established and awesome monster that totally fits your needs, and you should totally write it up.

IIRC it's originally a FR monster from 2e.

There's also the... astral doppelganger? Or ethereal doppelganger? Or something, from 3e. Lots to adapt to your needs.

And, of course, there's the option to ignore my well-reasoned argument in favor of play how you like.

 

[ppaladin123]

Enchantments used to be divided into charms and compulsions. Command was a compulsion. 5e got rid of that term/subcategory and changed some but not all of the old compulsions into charms so command is in an nebulous "other" enchantment category (not sure how many enchantments there are that aren't charms). It would be nice if there was some sort of keyword list for the spells so this was explicit/obvious.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Enchantments used to be divided into charms and compulsions. Command was a compulsion. 5e got rid of that term/subcategory and changed some but not all of the old compulsions into charms so command is in an nebulous "other" enchantment category (not sure how many enchantments there are that aren't charms). It would be nice if there was some sort of keyword list for the spells so this was explicit/obvious.

Keywords and subcategories are not needed. The answer is both explicit and obvious as is. It is, perhaps, only your knowledge of previous editions which is an obstacle.

Some enchantment spells create the "charmed" condition: in 5B, Charm Person, Dominate Monster, Dominate Person

Others don't: Bless, Command, Hold Person, Power Word Kill, Power Word Stun, Sleep

Mass Suggestion, Otto's Irresistable Dance, and Suggestion do not create the charmed effect, but are is explicitly called out to be ineffective against those who can't be charmed.