In game romantic relationship

I am also not convinced that romantic relationships add to a game at all. I haven't seen it successfully done.

I've found it can add a lot when the players are all into it.

A couple of PCs in my Victorian monster hunters game are romantically involved. The romance has been something they've done themselves, not input from me, the GM. It's been fun for everyone at the table, and it's led to some fun plots. Right now, they're about to get married, and the way things are going, the creature is going to come rising up out of the Thames, smush Buckingham Palace, and ruin their wedding. That bit would be pretty fun if it were just rising out of the Thames and smushing Queen Victoria, but I think the characters getting married in the middle of it puts the icing on the chaotic cake. So I think it can definitely add value to the game.

Also, I agree with everything el-remmen has been saying.
 

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To exclude romance from D&D is to not be true to the source material. Almost ALL of the literary inspirations of D&D (INCLUDING the uber-macho Conan stories) feature romantic relationships of some kind. Arthur and Guinevere (and Lancelot). Bradamante (the female knight from the legends of Charlamagne) and Ruggiero. Tristan and Iseult. Conan and Valeria (and Belit, etc.) The list goes on.

The important thing is that DM never forces the players in engage in romance. He can make it a possibility, but should never just say "your characters are attracted to each other, play it out". But then, I prefer old school sandbox-style campaigns where the players can do anything they please without the tyranny of an over-arching plot.

In my experience, romantic relationships add a great deal to the role-playing experience. They don't even have to take away from old-school orc-killing and treasure plundering. After all, what better motivation to raid an ancient tomb than to present your lady (or man) with the crown of some long dead noble (complete with a curse to provide future adventure hooks for the DM). I've had players with romantic relationships that didn't extend to their characters, non-involved players whose characters where intimately involved, and couples whose characters were also lovers. It isn't inherently disruptive as long as the DM sets and enforces boundaries for acceptable behavior at table (no bringing outside fights to the game, etc.). And to repeat, a DM should never attempt to tell players how their PCs feel about other characters.

You make a reasonable case. But romance is really a question of the interior... which is why people who behave according to a 'logic' of romance appear to be behaving illogically to other people. The interior is made exterior in legends and novels because the narrator just simply tells you how the concerned parties are feeling, and what they are thinking. The same holds true in plays, because you have soliloquies and expositors.

But role playing games are basically performative. Your character isn't feeling a certain way because he doesn't exist (I'm not saying so because I think you don't know, only to lay my groundwork). Hence the only 'reality' to your character's emotions are those things which are submitted to the group somehow... role playing games are a group activity. How do you make exterior these phantom interiorities? You can say them declaratively, have your character give a soliloquy or weave exposition into his dialogue, or have your character behave in a particular way which discloses his 'feelings'.

The first, declarative mode is OK but there's only a certain amount that the group cares about your character's hopes and fears. So, "Konan is sweet on Aleena" or "Konan wants to have snu-snu with Morgan" are fine... but let's not waste a bunch of time with it, eh? And supposing that both parties are PCs... "We take a long walk on the beach" or "We do it" are probably sufficient.

The second, dialogic way is fraught with peril. Nobody usually wants to listen to a soliloquy, especially one delivered in the persona of a monosyllabic barbarian or whatever. Now, the method of expositional dialogue is not too bad, but again if it dominates the conversation how is it interesting?

The third, active way is probably the most interesting insofar as the player saying "Konan buys a bouquet of roses" or "Konan brusquely excuses himself from the table" can lead the other players to have to interpret these actions, so it becomes a little game. What is Konan doing carrying around a bouquet of roses and a plush Flumph? Why is he hanging around that resthouse down the street... who does he know who is staying there? And so maybe this leads to the other characters tailing Konan one night, perhaps thinking he is betraying them or holding out on them, only to burst in on an amusing scene.

But I don't see much more promise in it than those little vignettes. Suppose that two players exchange "knowing glances"... how does that contribute to the game? OK, their characters call one another "pookie" and "pooh-direbear"... beyond that, where is the added content? Sure, they could go into a long spiel about how their characters spend time together, or worse yet how they interact physically, but is anyone interested in hearing this? I just don't see what the gory details of romance could possibly contribute to the entertainment of the table.
 

The third, active way is probably the most interesting insofar as the player saying "Konan buys a bouquet of roses" or "Konan brusquely excuses himself from the table" can lead the other players to have to interpret these actions, so it becomes a little game. What is Konan doing carrying around a bouquet of roses and a plush Flumph? Why is he hanging around that resthouse down the street... who does he know who is staying there? And so maybe this leads to the other characters tailing Konan one night, perhaps thinking he is betraying them or holding out on them, only to burst in on an amusing scene.

But I don't see much more promise in it than those little vignettes. Suppose that two players exchange "knowing glances"... how does that contribute to the game? OK, their characters call one another "pookie" and "pooh-direbear"... beyond that, where is the added content? Sure, they could go into a long spiel about how their characters spend time together, or worse yet how they interact physically, but is anyone interested in hearing this? I just don't see what the gory details of romance could possibly contribute to the entertainment of the table.

I think those vignettes are fun, interesting, and often amusing. The romantic relationship in my current game has been the source of hours of laughter and interesting dialogue. We just like a good story, though, and romance can be interesting for us. If you aren't normally interested in romance in any other form of media, then you won't like it in a roleplaying game.

Some people play roleplaying games to tell each other fun stories, which can include romance. Some people want to push minis and roll dice. Some people want to kill things, take their stuff, and grow in power. They're all legitimate ways of playing, and I think romance sub-plots can enhance a story-driven game.

hella_tellah-albums-misc-picture295-whatchoo-talkin-bout-mordenkainen.jpg

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. You might be surprised to learn that you like something you've never tried before if you give it a go.
 
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Stormborn, I'm interested that you have ever seen romantic relationships add value to a game. Do you have anything to add, about when or how it is successful? You mean the PCs develop the relationship outside the game, in character? Are you saying that is done so it doesn't take over the game and make it tedious for the others? Or something else.

I understand it depends on the circumstances, and in my case this being a new game with folk I haven't played with before, I don't know all those things. So yes it could best be discussed out of game, in my case.

I think el-remmen and others have noted how it can add to roleplay. Whats more interesting: that you are distraught that a fellow adventurer is in trouble or that your lover is? Its another layer to the game, to the characters, and it can bring a higher level of investment and allow people to explore interesting aspects of their characters. I also should add that at 36 I am the youngest person in our group, so maybe part of it is simple life experiance and being able to deal with these issues with a level of maturity.

And I did not mean discuss things out of game in character. I meant that the players discuss where they relationship may be going and what their respective goals for it are. Then let the actual romance play out, or not, in character in game.

The issue of focus is a simple one, and really a matter for the GM to decide. He is the one who needs to control the interactions and decide what happens on and off screen.

Ultimately, however, if you are uncomfortable with it then you shouldnt do it and you should make that clear to the the other players and GM. Again, you can talk about characters without doing it while IN character.
 

In my experiance romantic relationships, either between PCs or a PC and an NPC, can add value to a game, depending on the game, the characters, and the players themselves.
Agreed, but I would recommend that all of the players have a high comfort level with each other so that nobody will misunderstand. We have a long-term campaign, been playing for 26 years and 17 years of character time have elapsed. Over that time it would have seemed odd for there not to be character relationships. But these are all outside of player relationships and we all understand it.
 

Have you considered waiting until the rumor-mongering PC has fallen asleep and then put his hand into warm water? Have you considered booby trapping the suite at his inn? Perhaps writing insults on his clothing in invisible wizard marks? Dying all his clothes pink? There's nothing going on here that a storm of practical jokes won't resolve.

This rumor-mongering player may want to get in on the fun antagonism action you've been show-casing with this other player. OR he may be a jerk. In either case, a shocking grasp handshake is just the thing.

This has been your thread's chaotic neutral advice.
 

Hellah_Tellah said:
A couple of PCs in my Victorian monster hunters game are romantically involved. The romance has been something they've done themselves, not input from me, the GM. It's been fun for everyone at the table, and it's led to some fun plots. Right now, they're about to get married, and the way things are going, the creature is going to come rising up out of the Thames, smush Buckingham Palace, and ruin their wedding. That bit would be pretty fun if it were just rising out of the Thames and smushing Queen Victoria, but I think the characters getting married in the middle of it puts the icing on the chaotic cake. So I think it can definitely add value to the game.

I can't give you any more XP, so I'll just say YES THIS ROCKS THE END. :)
 

I haven't seen it successfully done.

Here's the thing. In real life, how many people do you know that have really good relationships? It's probably not most of your friends, and it may not even be half of them. Especially with the Mountain Dew swilling demographic that is gaming.

This is not Shakespeare. I think the comparison to improvisational theatre is apt, and I think it's also important to think, "How can I have fun?" If you think the romantic angle is a drag, don't run with it. You may get more energy out of being enigmatic and quietly hostile. But I would probably, in your situation, be somewhat open to it.

Nonetheless, I have basically bailed on a group simply because of the soap operatic nature of the game... there were too many characters, often four or five active per player, and my boundaries got pushed way past what I was comfortable with for a first or second game session. I also got some weird vives from one of the players, ostensibly straight, who played several female characters. The other female player and my date both said later he definitely kicked things into high gear with me there. It was strange and awkward.
 

Well, you clearly don't want this and so shouldn't force yourself to go along with it. But still, guess i disagree with nearly everyone else who's posted so far. I don't mind romantic relationships that characters develop (admittedly it can easily become problematic if it's between two PCs and the players are involved out of game), and find it is a nice addition to immersion. Especially with NPCs, not just having a lover but also developing friendships can add to a game. It's nice to have people your character cares about in the world. Aside from family or others that existed already in backstory.
 


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