In your opinion, what's the best way to make the players lose?

[kerbarian]

In general, if I want the PCs to lose a fight (or surrender), I want them to realize up front that it's not a normal fight, so they don't feel frustrated by losing. Either put them up against enemies who are way out of their league or stack the odds in some other, obvious way.

If the enemy here is a poweful diviner, a ritual could work well. The diviner knows exactly where they'll be staying or camping and sets a ritual in motion days ahead of time. At the moment of the ambush, the magic coalesces and, say, dazes and blinds the entire party for the encounter. Then they have a brief, confusing fight where they can't even see their attackers, and suddenly the ambushers melt away again, taking the artifact and some prisoners with them.

You could even make it a skill challenge, where the party is stumbling around, trying to escape with as much of the party intact as possible. "Success" would be that everyone not fated to be kidnapped comes out of it unwounded, and they get some significant clues about the attackers and where they went.

Either of those (or probably any scenario where the PCs get to try to interfere with the plan) would require some careful planning to make sure things don't feel too heavy-handed during the encounter itself. IMO, being heavy-handed in encounter setup is (more or less) fine, since players expect that to be out of their control. Being heavy-handed during an encounter takes away from the sense that the characters' decisions and actions matter.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

That's when you pull out the lurker who paralyzes/grabs the PC you want, and flees.

This.

How many movies, games or books have you seen where the villain brings a whole bunch of disposable henchmen that act as cannon fodder while he tries to get what he wants done? You can do that here, and basically have the whole encounter be a smokescreen for the lurker who's gonna kidnap the party member and/or artifact.

Basically, just build an encounter that's relatively level appropriate, but probably a bit on the hard side. Put a big bad in the encounter that's obviously much stronger than the PC's so that they'll hopefully ignore him in favor of cleaning up the cannon fodder first. Then have him probably drop a couple nasty attacks in the opening rounds before finally doing something that allows him to teleport away the things that he wants.

You're the DM, so you can figure out how he's gonna do this, even if it's on the fly. One option would be to use forced movement to separate some of the PC's, then have the BBEG get adjacent to the ones he wants and teleport out. Another would be for him to drop some sort of a zone spell that gets rid of them before escaping himself.

Actually, the latter could actually be kind of a cool option since it sounds like he's supposed to be kidnapping multiple characters. Make sure they get clumped together, then drop some sort of zone that stuns them and creates a barrier that the other PC's can't enter for a round. Or you could even make it take multiple rounds, as the other PC's have to slowly watch their companions fade away. You would probably get some panic amongst the remaining PC's, and even some frenzied skill checks to determine the nature of the device.

When it's finally gone though, the BBEG leaves (thus reducing the difficulty of the encounter) and the PC's can clean up the rest of the cannon fodder. Then you could even give them a nice skill challenge where they attempt to determine what it was that took the PC, and perhaps how to find out where it went.

 

[Stalker0]

Best thing I can recommend is several creatures with area attacks.

Leaders can generally keep one party member going strong for a while, but when everyone in the party is hurt you can go down quick.

Now since they are level 4, it shouldn't be too hard to take them down. They aren't epic after all

 

[Saeviomagy]

Choose something with swallow and have it flee once it's swallowed the target.
Pair it with something that heavily restricts movement.

I'd recommend avoiding stuns and dazes: they just make for frustrating combat, and if you're going to prevent everyone from acting anyway, you might as well just cutscene it.

Alternately, if this guy is a diviner, just keep throwing situations at them (unconnected with the BBEG) that encourage or force them to seperate. The diviner knows the perfect moment to swoop in and take care of a single PC and drag them off without the rest of the party being involved.

 

[Aulirophile]

In that situation? Make up a burrowing creature that grabs by swallowing. That is their standard. Minor action "digest", any grabbed (swallowed) creature takes a -x penalty to athletics and acrobatics, save ends, -2 to the save as long as they are swallowed (make the penalty high enough that they can't escape except on a 20 for the people you're going to capture). Then burrow away. No way to catch you.

 

[CoarseDragon]

Best thing I can recommend is several creatures with area attacks.

Leaders can generally keep one party member going strong for a while, but when everyone in the party is hurt you can go down quick.

Now since they are level 4, it shouldn't be too hard to take them down. They aren't epic after all

Good suggestion there. Area attacks and on-going damage will bring them down.

 

[LostSoul]

Since the guy is a diviner you can play into that.

Have him attack when circumstances will favour him. An eclipse that turns the battlefield to dim light? Might work. Enemies of the PCs wander by? Could happen. Stuff like that.

 

[BobTheNob]

Part of my personnel rules of DMing is that, as DM, I reserve certain rights. One of the rights I have reserved (and I made this clear to all players, even gave them a printed document of the rights I reserved unto myself) is that I am allowed to suspend players and move the story along as I see fit.

So, if I was in your situation, my inclination is to do the very thing you are trying to avoid. Dont "play out" the situation if its too hard to, just move it to a scripted sequence. Players understand these things are in the best interest of the game, as long as you make it clear to them exactly what you are doing. Play effectively suspended to move the plot along.

Its not such a crime as you might expect. The important thing is that player input is given a chance to resolve the situation, but it doesnt necessarily have to be there and then, it can be later as they try to re-unite and escape. Take destiny out of their hands and it becomes so much more gratifying when they take it back.

The important thing is its not so bad, as long as your players understand what you are doing and why. Its a plot device, not a draconian imposition.

But thats my take, every DM has their own style.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Have you considered fast acting poison?

This way you can have a ‘normal’ encounter with enemies that the level 4 PCs can actually defeat individually, though you will probably want to stack the numbers against them.

The element that hopefully gets you what you want is the fast acting poison that incrementally debilitates the players, meaning that the longer the fight goes on for the less likely they are to succeed, which will put you in the position of doing whatever plot business you like.

I would probably tie the poison to certain obvious attacks, not a melee basic as that would be a little cheap.

Bone Vice poison
At the end of the poisoned targets turn they must make an Endurance check:

14 or less: Worsen
15 to 16: maintain
17 or above: improve

On their turn an adjacent ally may make a DC12 heal check as a move action to assist a poisoned target (once per turn); on success the target gains a +2 bonus to their next Endurance check; on failure the target takes a -1 penalty to their next Endurance check.

Poison Track (note: of course you can adjust the number of stages to match your requirements)

Improve 2: Its just a flesh wound.
Effect: You are no longer poisoned.

Improve 1: You ignore the stinging wound and the pain seems to go away.
Effect: No effect.

Initial: The wound stings but you feel no immediate effects.
Effect: No effect.

Worsen 1: Your joints start to ache and your vision becomes slightly blurred.
Effect: You take a -2 penalty to speed and attack rolls.

Worsen 2: The world starts to swim around you and your muscles start to cramp.
Effect: You are dazed, slowed and take a -2 penalty to attack rolls.

Worsen 3: The world starts slipping away into a mess of vague colour as your body continues to fail.
Effect: You are dazed, immobilised and blind.

Worsen 4: The world gently floats away….
Effect: You are unconscious until the poison runs its course; at the end of each hour make a DC15 endurance check on success you become conscious. You feel tired and sore but have otherwise fought off the effects of the poison.

I think using something like this would lead to a desperate and exciting fight with the players trying to defeat the bad guys before they were overcome by the poison. It could end in one PC making a glorious last stand, or maybe realising the inevitable and trying to negotiate a deal for an ‘antidote’. Both of these would get you what you want while giving the players a memorable encounter.

 

[Horatio]

Let the NPC invite them to a banquet. Poison the food / drinks with narcotics. And make it a memorable experience.

I did something similar once. But with several twists.
For example (and briefly), after they had a good time (wine, women and song singing), they fell unconscious. And later woke up as undead (thought their poisoner killed them and made them undead) and I let them play certain carefully chosen undead from monster manual (with corresponding roles to theirs) for 2 sessions, even "let them" killing a bunch of heroes oposing the "villain", only to let them woke up again, realising it was only a horrible hallucination caused by the narcotics. And still being captured in some sort of dungeon, of course. Now damaged by their rampaging in "undead" delirium. "So, we are not really undead then?" sob from one of the players was priceless though...