Initiatives caused by Action

[Chimera]

One of the things I've never been completely happy with is rolling initiative when someone says that they do something that forces combat.

As of this last session, I have implemented a system whereby the first person who says "I cast/attack/pull out X/whatever", forcing an initiative roll, is assigned (rather than rolling) a base initiative of 15 (plus modifiers). Everyone else rolls.

Still experimental and I might change it, but I'm thinking that it allows that person to act high in the initiative order, but still allows someone else a chance to "beat them to the punch", so to speak.

I thought it worked out well the first time it got used, but then, that may be because the Kobold Sorcerer rolled a 19 (=21) and thus, got to go before the PC (15+3 = 18).

Has anyone else implemented a similar system or ever experimented with something to correct the "I act first... oh no, I rolled a 2" initiative problem?

 

[ChrisHaines]

What if you just treated the initial player's action as a Suprise action? Then that player would get a partial action before everyone [including that player] rolled for initiative and took a full round of actions. The premise is that all other combatants are reacting to the initial player. If that player draws a sword or casts a spell, they do it. Then everyone rolls initiative like normal.

I haven't convinced myself this would work though. I'm picturing someone getting a free partial action every scenario, whether it be the players or their opponents. It's an idea is all.

 

[Paraxis]

The surprise round is the best way to handle this I think. Maybe a surprise check is in order, but the question is how to handle it. Normaly surpise situations are a spot/listen check to see if you noticed hidden attacker, but doesn't work here realy.

Maybe have the acting character roll initiative and that sets the DC for a Ref save or dex check to see if you get to roll initiative.

 

[genshou]

The surprise round is the best way to handle this I think. Maybe a surprise check is in order, but the question is how to handle it. Normaly surpise situations are a spot/listen check to see if you noticed hidden attacker, but doesn't work here realy.

Maybe have the acting character roll initiative and that sets the DC for a Ref save or dex check to see if you get to roll initiative.

That's exactly what I do (Ref save to get to roll initiative and act in the "surprise round").

 

[Goken100]

That's a cool idea, to have the first-acting character roll to determine the DC for other characters' Reflex saves. But couldn't that roll be something like a Sleight of Hand check instead of just an Initiative (Dex) check?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I would prefer the surprise round scenario..

Sleight of Hand vs Sense Motive checks?
This way the folks who are more attuned to what a person intends on doing will be able to join the surprise round...and the burly barbarians actions will be much more easy to predict than the sneaky Rogue.

Of course this means that Rogues will tend to be better at surprising someone in a face to face situation.. which may not be a bad idea. A Rogue who prepares by hiding a weapon in hand before the encounter can usually get in a Sneak Attack.

The other thing I like about this option is making both these skills useful in a combat environment..meaning more players will likely use them
Down side is, if you plan on bringing this mechanic in mid-game it would be wise to allow players to adjust how they spent skill points to reflect the skills new importance.

 

[Chimera]

The surprise round is the best way to handle this I think. Maybe a surprise check is in order, but the question is how to handle it. Normaly surpise situations are a spot/listen check to see if you noticed hidden attacker, but doesn't work here realy.

Maybe have the acting character roll initiative and that sets the DC for a Ref save or dex check to see if you get to roll initiative.

I'm not real big on adding a huge mechanic here.

Maybe if no one saw it coming, I could justify "surprise". But in most cases, you're just begging for a large scale argument about "How could we be surprised when we were all standing around with our hands on our weapons???"

In this case, they were speaking to a Kobold Sorcerer through a wooden grate, after having killed about 15 of his 'people'. The party was in a room with a 7' ceiling, the Kobold in a 3' high tunnel. Everyone at the table, including the Kobold NPC, was expecting combat at any second. In fact, when the Halfling walked up to the grate, the Kobold retreated farther down the tunnel.

I'd personally have a very hard time justifying a "surprise round" under any circumstances approaching this.

What I'm really attempting to avoid, as I said in the OP, is the

"Enough, I draw my sword and attack!"
"Ok, roll initiative."
"Crap! I got a 2. I go last. Hey, how can that happen!"

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

"Crap! I got a 2. I go last. Hey, how can that happen!"

I think you will get this in almost any version that does not grant the initiating character a hugh bonus... so the best answer is 'Sorry man, you went for your sword and it got caught up on the hem of your cloak.. took you a bit longer to clear your sword than you expected. While you were getting it free the other guys sword slipped easily out and he is attacking you.'

"How could we be surprised when we were all standing around with our hands on our weapons???"

Two ways to avoid this:
- Have the encounter go to combat rounds the minute the PCs are in sight of the NPCs...
- Do an opposed check { I lean towards Sleight of Hands vs Sense Motive} to reflect the 'he got the drop on you' mechanically

While its called a 'surprise round' its more about being faster to act. Actually being 'surprised' has little to do with it. Much like having the class 'barbarian' does not mean your character is a 'barbarian'