Invigorating Assault: Can my party always start the fight with temp hp?

[Stalker0]

I'm making some clerics and I came across this at-will power, that has an effect that gives an adjacent ally temp hp.

Normally temp HP lasts for 1 hour I believe, and since the at-will gives this as an effect, hitting a target isn't necessarily required (this point is debatable, some people interpret it either way).

Assuming you interpret it like I do, can I give my whole party temp hp before any battle? The amount of hp isn't that much, but its seems pretty useful.

 

[keterys]

Temp hp last until the target takes a short rest. You can't use powers without a valid target (DMG 'Bag of Rats exclusion), but since it's an Effect there will be some table variation.

So, up to the DM on whether they allow you to, after everyone short rests, swing your weapon around a few time and give them all temp hp. I suspect that it's certainly not intended to work that way, and suggests that in fact stuff like Otherwind Stride should perhaps not work to allow teleports out of combat. How odd.

 

[sfedi]

Mainly as Keterys said.

I'm not sure if temp HPs last "until you take a short rest" or 5 minutes.

I think the latter, since this is consistent with all Power's durations.

But maybe it's one of those rules' oddities/botches.

 

[keterys]

Temp hp explicitly last until you rest. It's not what I'd consider a good rule, but they made it all the same.

 

[Mengu]

Temp hp explicitly last until you rest. It's not what I'd consider a good rule, but they made it all the same.

There are certain powers that give you temporary hit points at the end of an extended or short rest, and these powers would not be very meaningful if the temporary hit points expired after 5 minutes. That's why they expire at the end of a rest.

 

[keterys]

Yep. And that rule creates other rules that are real problems, like an artificer giving key party members surge + Con(*2/*3) temp hp before every combat.

 

[eamon]

Like keterys, I think it's unfortunate that temp hp last more than 5 minutes. If you need a fix, that'd be the best rule start modifying (imho). I kinda wonder whether they really thought about the issues surrounding temp hp, or that the current rule is just an accident of history and wording.

I'm not a fan of the bag o rats rule in general, and in particular not its application to effects due to the consistency & common sense issues that raises - so such problems I'd much rather solve with a solution that works consistently without requiring such a situational, unclear exception.

Temporary hitpoints really shouldn't last more than 5 minutes. Resting should be a boon; not a penalty. In the artificer example, it gets even more ludicrous if said artificer then tries to take a short rest to recharge his infusion, but the rest of the party avoids doing so to maintain the temporary hit points (and AC bonus). Pushed to the extreme, the artifcer could grant everyone a solid temp hp boost and a +1 power bonus before entering combat, and he'd just start the combat with one infusion down. That's not exactly a great thing.

 

[keterys]

The power bonus goes away. But, yes, the point is for the artificer to then rest afterwards while the rest of the group does calisthenics or something

Pretty similar to this instance where the cleric does mock fighting moves next to people after combat to give them temp. Even if it lasts only 5 minutes, he could still just do it for everyone every five minutes, so unfortunately that solution is not a true fix - you actually need to call on bag of rats if you want to stop it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Short rests are party things... you can´t avoid them... if as a DM i tell you that nothing happens and you can take a breather, you have done your short rest...

 

[sfedi]

Short rests are party things... you can´t avoid them... if as a DM i tell you that nothing happens and you can take a breather, you have done your short rest...

Mmm, that seems more like an ad hoc ruling to deal with the temp hp problem.

I would cut to the chase and solve the root of the problem.

Claiming that all members of a party must rest together at the same time gets you in a world of trouble. What about people sleeping and others keeping watch?