Invisible Paladin

[FireLance]

It causes damage if the target wants to do anything remotely effective during the encounter. If it only moves or buffs the whole time while taking at least the paladin's attack, all the better.

Again, this is only an issue if the target doesn't have any way to attack the paladin at range.

 

[The_Furious_Puffin]

So say for the purposes of discussion I cannot meaningfully engage the paladin who's DCed (maybe he has a ranged weapon and is shooting me from ontop a cliff. I don't care, whatever)

Doesn't this mean I can avoid the DC effect by closing my eyes and attacking the darkness?

 

[Kobu]

Nor do I particularly agree that the "intent" of divine challenge is to force the paladin to assume a melee combat role, or that you are not supposed to mark-and-run. The way divine challenge is worded seems to allow exactly that!

I agree with all the assessments you made in your last post. I don't particularly want the part I quoted to be correct, but there it is.

If I were to strip away WotC's intentions, I would add in the two caveats I posted. However, those would be houserules, and honestly, they would seem to go against what WotC intended.

 

[Skyscraper]

4E has made it more explicitly clear that rules need to be applied in light of common sense. If your intent it to try to argue endlessly over a single word in the definition of a power, i'm sure we can be here all year 24/7 before playing a single game.

The intent of divine challenge is for the paladin to offer himself as a mark. As per the rules, he cannot run away, though the rules didn't state it that way. Common sense suggests that becoming invisible as well as teleporting under the floor (but in a square vertically adjacent to the target), phasing through the wall (but in a square adjacent to the target), becoming ethereal, transforming into gazeous form, shape shifting into an ant (effectively disappearing from view unless you have +55 on perception), are all equivalent to runing away even though none of them are explicitly stated in the rules and you could arguably do all of the above according to RAW and still meet the divine challenge criteria.

This is how i would rule this situation:

Paladin: "By my god's power, i challenge you to come and get me!!"
*poof*! (Paladin disppears)
"Hahaha, now you can't seeeee me, now you can't seeeee me, try to fiiiind me!"
Palading moves around the target to hopefully conceal his location. Palading player says to DM that target takes divine challenge damage if he doesn't attack his paladin. DM politely asks player to leave game and never return.

Now if you disagree and want to continue arguing that the RAW says that the paladin met all criteria for divine challenge by becoming invisible (or phasing through the wall or otherwise attacking but then becoming non accessible), fine. Please refer to the infinite oregano counter-argument.

To summarize: if you want to offer yourself as a target, there needs to be a bulleye painted in red on your chest. For all to see. Otherwise, you're not offering yourself as a target.

Sky

 

[Mort_Q]

{good stuff}

I like you. You can play at my table any day.

 

[smallkiwi]

I disagree, the Special: Clearly states its a magical compulsion - it means it doesn't require the target to be visible for the enemy to want to attack him. If it pisses the monster off enough, hes going to chase after you. The only way I could agree is if we played it out and found that this completely broke the game, and I don't think it does.

 

[Kobu]

Again, this is only an issue if the target doesn't have any way to attack the paladin at range.

True. In some cases, he's around a corner or whatever and there is no way to get to him. In other cases, he's going to be dogged by other characters for moving and/or making ranged attacks while adjacent to enemies.

So say for the purposes of discussion I cannot meaningfully engage the paladin who's DCed (maybe he has a ranged weapon and is shooting me from ontop a cliff. I don't care, whatever)

Doesn't this mean I can avoid the DC effect by closing my eyes and attacking the darkness?

Closing your eyes is a free action. You do before the paladin goes. He makes an attack. After that, he may have teleported anywhere on the map. On your turn, you fireball a group of minions under the presumption that he is now in that area. Success!

 

[Branduil]

If a Paladin issues a divine challenge in the middle of the forest, and no one is there to hear it, is it still a divine challenge?

 

[Kobu]

The intent of divine challenge is for the paladin to offer himself as a mark. As per the rules, he cannot run away, though the rules didn't state it that way.

Okay...

 

[smallkiwi]

If a Paladin issues a divine challenge in the middle of the forest, and no one is there to hear it, is it still a divine challenge?

If the forest decides to make an attack that does not include the paladin as a target, the forest will take radiant damage equal to (3,6,9)+Cha and a -2 on that attack role.