Iron Bands of Bilarro and Coup de Grace?

[Arravis]

Darkness wrote: "you didn't see the "dead - can still take actions" (or some such) thread on the WotC boards"

Lol... sounds too bizzarre. Got a link?

 

[MerakSpielman]

The argument is fairly simple. The DMG description of the "dead" condition fails to say that the creature with the condition is unable to move, speak, think, take actions, etc... It just says something about the soul departing the body and the body starting to decay.

 

[Piratecat]

And thus, the creation of undead! Now I just need to know whether maggots dropping out of the dead people taking actions draw AoOs and allow you to cleave.

Less sarcasm please, Mr. Spielman. People might take you seriously.

 

[PowerWordDumb]

The argument is fairly simple. The DMG description of the "dead" condition fails to say that the creature with the condition is unable to move, speak, think, take actions, etc... It just says something about the soul departing the body and the body starting to decay.

You have the right of it, sir, as you do with the Iron bands. The rules of the game are only those which are explicitly written on the page, not what can be inferred from them. It doesn't matter what "makes sense", it only matters what's in ink on the page. All else is house rules.

It may lead to silly situations, but it's a silly game - and the only way to cut out rules-lawyering manipulations is to cut out *all* manipulations. Side-effects such as immobile-but-attacking iron-bands victims, and dead characters who can still act are a small price to pay for rules clarity. One can argue forever the implications of the written rules, but one cannot argue what is written.

 

[Darkness]

Darkness wrote: "you didn't see the "dead - can still take actions" (or some such) thread on the WotC boards"

Lol... sounds too bizzarre. Got a link?

It was a few years ago, on the previous version of the WotC boards, alas.

 

[KnowTheToe]

Actually thousands of inferences are made when playing any game with written rules. Different people bring varying levels of experience, reading comprehension and cultural knowledge to the game with them. It can never be seperated and the authors of rules depend on that in order to keep the rule books from being 1000+ pages and having to repeat the exact same phrases over and over and over. Rule 0 implies that there are endless variations of the rules and that all of them equally valid. Rule 0 makes everyone's arguments near pointless.

It seems simple to me. The bands bind you the same as rope would and apply the same penalties the DM would apply. Unless the PCs are evil, the bands are only an excellent tool for capturing people. They are also easy to break. A DC 30 strength check is not unheard of especially at higher levels.

 

[Arravis]

"Unless the PCs are evil, the bands are only an excellent tool for capturing people."

Would it be evil for a chaotic good character to coup de gras an manical evil wizard who has destroyed a village of innocents? I don't see coup de gras as an "instant" evil action, it's all about circumstances.

 

[KnowTheToe]

"Unless the PCs are evil, the bands are only an excellent tool for capturing people."

Would it be evil for a chaotic good character to coup de gras an manical evil wizard who has destroyed a village of innocents? I don't see coup de gras as an "instant" evil action, it's all about circumstances.

I would see the slaying of the the helpless as evil, unless the PCs are working on behalf the law and have been given the right to sentence the perp to death. There may be exceptions as you noted, but I hardly believe you will find a use like that on a daily or regular basis.

 

[PowerWordDumb]

It seems simple to me. The bands bind you the same as rope would and apply the same penalties the DM would apply.

It also seems simple to other people that dead characters can still walk around and attack people. It's all house rules until it's explicit and written into the SRD.

As to how I'd handle it... well, that would be telling.

 

[Arravis]

KnowTheToe, often times a D&D adventuring group is out in the wilds, in a no-mans land where there is no law. In those situations, those with the might tend to make the law on the spot. Additionally, many adventuring groups have paladins or clerics (or others depending on local culture, etc) those characters have very real legal powers to judge and administer mortal justice. As a DM, I've had no problem with such things. Too often I see DM's stiffle their players' character's in-game responsabilities, etc. I can't imagine having a high level cleric, paladin, monk etc... without that person having some sort of legal power.