Is 4E still D&D to you?

[Mallus]

It's still D&D to me. But D&D has always been less the game and more the set of tools that me and my players used to build the game.

And 4e looks like a sweet set of tools. Easier to use, with less rooting around in an overstuffed toolbox for just the right one.

 

[pr1]

Obligatory comment about "you're using a poll of a self-selected sample answered by a tiny minority of the people who play D&D to draw conclusions? Shame."

Well, EN World is the forum that actually has a disproportionate amount of people in favor of new editions that WoTC puts out. You're not going to find a more open forum to the idea outside of Wizards' own. So, I see what you're saying, but it does say something when the site set up originally to cheerlead and preview 3rd edition when it came out -- and that is taking a similiar stance to 4e -- has a lot of people saying it's not "D&D."

I'm staying out of the debate as a whole. I don't even play 3rd edition, but whatever makes people happy.

 

[Gothmog]

DnD and D20 used to be a system for everybody. Now it isn't. That is the shame.

Wow, that is completely opposite of the experiences I and a lot of other people I know have had with D20/3.x.

D20/3.x works great for a beer & pretzels kind of game, or one focused mostly on combat, resource management, system mastery, lone-wolf PCs, and dungeon delving. For a game where the DM doesn't want to use the built-in assumptions of D20/3.x for magic levels, exponential increase in PC power, and doesn't want a superheroes/wuxia style of game, 3.x is a horrible system to use. Likewise, if you prefer a more narrative style of game, 3.x fails miserably.

Thats cool though- quite a few people love what 3.x did, and if they do, more power to them. Keep playing. 4e has swung the pendulum back in the other direction towards a more narrative and cooperative style of play. Have you thought of an interesting monster or magical effect? Cool- just insert it in and play in 4e. I think a lot of us who support and love 4e forgot our experiences during the 1e/2e era- if you want to do something, just do it and don't worry about the fiddly mechanical bits or being able to replicate the ability with feats, magic items or spells. PCs shouldn't be able to do anything and everything a moster does- thats why its a monster/NPC. If it makes for a more fun game and more engaging story, do it.

For me and my group, 3.x D&D swung WAY too far from the roots of D&D and we never felt it was a fulfilling play experience. 4e has returned the core set of assumptions about the game style that was present in 1e/2e, while also allowing us to use the simplified and streamlined mechanical base of 3.x D&D. So put simply, 4e is MORE D&D than almost any other version has been for us. And if you don't like 4e, thats cool too- Pathfinder will support the 3.x playstyle, so everybody wins!

 

[pr1]

Ok, one more thing, then I'm done for today:

Wow, that is completely opposite of the experiences I and a lot of other people I know have had with D20/3.x.

D20/3.x works great for a beer & pretzels kind of game, or one focused mostly on combat, resource management, system mastery, lone-wolf PCs, and dungeon delving. For a game where the DM doesn't want to use the built-in assumptions of D20/3.x for magic levels, exponential increase in PC power, and doesn't want a superheroes/wuxia style of game, 3.x is a horrible system to use. Likewise, if you prefer a more narrative style of game, 3.x fails miserably.

Thats cool though- quite a few people love what 3.x did, and if they do, more power to them. Keep playing. 4e has swung the pendulum back in the other direction towards a more narrative and cooperative style of play. Have you thought of an interesting monster or magical effect? Cool- just insert it in and play in 4e. I think a lot of us who support and love 4e forgot our experiences during the 1e/2e era- if you want to do something, just do it and don't worry about the fiddly mechanical bits or being able to replicate the ability with feats, magic items or spells. PCs shouldn't be able to do anything and everything a moster does- thats why its a monster/NPC. If it makes for a more fun game and more engaging story, do it.

For me and my group, 3.x D&D swung WAY too far from the roots of D&D and we never felt it was a fulfilling play experience. 4e has returned the core set of assumptions about the game style that was present in 1e/2e, while also allowing us to use the simplified and streamlined mechanical base of 3.x D&D. So put simply, 4e is MORE D&D than almost any other version has been for us. And if you don't like 4e, thats cool too- Pathfinder will support the 3.x playstyle, so everybody wins!

I don't know that we're playing the same game here. Narrative? Cooperative? Characters without badass advancement? That might be why it's not D&D! As I recall, D&D is about killing monsters and taking treasure.

Again, I'm just refuting what I think are your assumptions, not whether or not 4e is D&D. I read 2-3 pages of the rulebook in the store, decided I didn't want to play it, and that was that.

 

[Razuur]

As I recall, D&D is about killing monsters and taking treasure.

It is to you. For us it can be, but we could run anything with the system.

We have run a narrative game for years, and had not real problem with a few rules tweaks.

This will be my last post on this too. Glad you all like the new edition, and I wish you a decade of exciting adventures with the new edition!

Take care,

Razuur