Is Coup de Grace an evil act?

[Pielorinho]

Good question. According to WotC, it looks like Assassins are inherently evil.

PS - I am refering to their Prestige Class, which you must be EVIL to qualify for.

True, but you must also "kill someone for no other reason than to join the assassins." The Assassin PrC is an example of a society-based PrC, and is as distinct from a lower-case assassin as a Warrior (NPC fighting class) is from a warrior (dude with weapon).

Daniel

 

[Storm Raven]

Good question. According to WotC, it looks like Assassins are inherently evil.

No, members of that particular prestige class are evil. It says nothing about assassins with a small "a". And has nothing to do with the issue of whether a coup de grace is an inherently evil act or not.

 

[Pielorinho]

However, in a world where magic can heal any wound, regenerate any limb and flat out bring someone back from the dead, it is hard to justify a coup de grace.

It's also a world that rarely contains prisons adequate for confining powerful evildoers -- I know in my campaign world, if there are any prisons adequate for holding fire giants, the PCs have never heard of them.

If you don't have access to the spell Imprison, your choices for dealing with evildoers may be very limited. Killing them quickly and painlessly might be the most mercy you can offer them.

And if you do have access to the spell Imprison, you better hope none of the evildoers' buddies have access to the spell Freedom. If they do, then by not killing the bad guys (and scattering the ashes), you might be allowing their reign of terror to continue.

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am pretty sure that the act of chanelling negative energy is not an evil act. Inflict Wounds uses negative energy, but it does not have an [evil] descriptor.

Casting a spell that utilises negative energy is not an evil act.

Channelling negative energy innately - that is, spending a Rebuke Undead attempt in oder to Rebuke Undead, activate a Divine feat, open an evil portal, or whatever, is an evil act, and is defined clearly as such in Defenders of the Faith, from memory.

-Hyp.

 

[Hackenslash]

I have never considered a Coup De Grace an Evil Act as a DM or as a Player and it does not say anything in any Rule Book D20 or otherwise that iis considered an Evil act. I think it would be more of a morality issue and up to the particular individual as to whether or not to dispatch a seemingly helpless enemy. It would certainly open up a debate amoungst the player characters and could generate some good role playing.

Hope this helps.

 

[Branduil]

Likewise: David -> Goliath (Not coup de grace of course, but not honorable either.)

Actually, David did Coup de Grace Goliath. The stone from David's sling only knocked Goliath unconcious. After that David beheaded him with a sword.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

If you kill enemies in their sleep you're not fighting fair. You're underhanded. You do what it takes. Noone can dispute that.

So you can saiy CdG is unfair. You can say it's dishonorable. You could go as far as saying it's a chaotic act. But it isn't inherently evil. If you can't beat the villain with honorable means, you must become dishonorable, lest he destroys the world on the next day.

You are just strolling through the woods with your band of hearty adventurers when you hear a huge ruccous coming down the path. You all hide and see 2 fire giants, 4 ogres and 2 dire wolves march by giving the appearance of a military party. You decide to stalk them and kill the fire giants when the first opportunity presents itself.

This is an evil act, because the characters do not know what the fire giants are up to.

The situation isn't as black-or-white as you portray it: It depends on the kind of monsters we're taling about.

If you kill a couple of humans without knowing what they're up to you kill without a firm reason and probably you commit an evil act.

But fire giants and ogres? They're usually evil, the party might even have heard of no good ogres and fire giants to that day. I think it depends on the type of creature in question and on the campaign.

There are any number of reasons for those giants to be there that do not deserve retaliation on the part of the PCs. By stalking and killing these fire giants the PCs are showing nothing short of cold-blooded racism.

If they would just let them go, they wouldn't behave very heroically, either: they'd be cowards not to inspect the matter. And again, it depends on the reputation of the race in question.

What has happened now is that the fire giants, ogres and wolves are all removed from the natural habitat, we must assume that there is some reason for this removal.

It's not because they go on vacation, that's for sure

That reason could likely be that this group did not fit in with their civilization and therefor struck out on their own to create a new civilization. Maybe these are peace loving, poetry writting fire giants and ogres. OTOH these could also be a scouting group taking a letter of alegiance to the frost giants so that the frost and fire giants can team up on the (demi-)humans to wage war.

So the situation is almost exactly the same as before: we encounter monsters, and must depend on our own good judgement and the reputation of the involved races to make up our course. The fact that they're away from their usual climate doesn't change that

A good character tries stop injustice. Legally, the local athorities should deal with the matter. If you can't bring them into the local athorities (or just perfer to deal with it yourself), then the punishment should fit the crime. If they attacked you unprovoked and failed, death is an appropriate punishment for attempted murder.

Now we must bring law and chaos into play: Bringing it before the local authorities would be a lawful act, taking it into our own hands a chaotic one.

Good question. According to WotC, it looks like Assassins are inherently evil.

PS - I am refering to their Prestige Class, which you must be EVIL to qualify for.

Yes, and Assassin is evil, but an assassin doesn't have to be.

Killing people for money may not be a charity job, but it depends on what people you kill: Do you take every assignment or do you only kill the evil bastards?

A sniper is no assassin, either: assassination is about the why, while sniping is about the how. A sniper kills from far away, unseen, without waring. Elves and halflings both use many snipers, and they aren't evil. Once again, it's about the why.

I am pretty sure that the act of chanelling negative energy is not an evil act. Inflict Wounds uses negative energy, but it does not have an [evil] descriptor.

You're right. Negative energy is just another weapon. Undeath and the undead, on the other hand, are considered inherently evil, cause it's a mockery of life.

 

[niteshade6]

"You're right. Negative energy is just another weapon. Undeath and the undead, on the other hand, are considered inherently evil, cause it's a mockery of life."

Well that's not entirely true by the rules. Casting a spell that uses negative energy in some way is not an evil act. But channeling it is, and this is clearly defined by the rules. Channeling negative energy is what happens when you rebuke undead or use a rebuke undead ability for something else, as hypersmurf described.

So casting inflict light wounds is not evil, but rebuking zombies is. This does not mean you instantly turn evil if you do it though. You can be a neutral priest and still channel negative energy. Although one might assume you slowly shift to evil over time.

 

[Sejs]

Drawmack - a seperate point of view:

You are just strolling through the woods with your band of hearty adventurers when you hear a huge ruccous coming down the path. You all hide and see 2 fire giants, 4 ogres and 2 dire wolves march by giving the appearance of a military party. You decide to stalk them and kill the fire giants when the first opportunity presents itself.

This is an evil act, because the characters do not know what the fire giants are up to.

You are just strolling through early 1940s Germany with your band of hearty adventurers when you hear a huge ruccous coming down the path. You all hide and see 2 SS Officers, 4 Reich Footsoldiers and 2 rottweilers march by giving the appearance of a military party....

 

[Ranger REG]

Is it mercy killing or just basically killing?

It sounds subjective. A coup de grace by the act alone is evil. You're taking out one's life, even if he's your sworn enemy. But the reason for doing the act of coup de grace may or may not slightly alleviate the burden of this evil act. For example, both combatants agreed beforehand, that the duel is to the death. We tend to think that if two combatants meet face-to-face on a level playing field and agreed to fight to the death it is considered fair, whereas an assassin prefers to take the opportunity to kill a person without the person knowing he is the unfortunate participant is unfair.

Another thing to look at, does coup de grace serve a greater purpose? I mean we go back to the age-old argument of a paladin who killed the adult werewolves and found in the lair about a mile outside a farming village a litter of 25 baby werewolves already dining on a human flesh, so they pretty much know the taste. Are you willing to remove them farther from the village and into a remote wilderness to violate the ecosystem protected by a grand circle of druids?