Is D&D/D20 Childish and Immature?

[Umbran]

So the REAL issue is: do the rules of D&D as published promote or otherwise encourage immature play? Do they discourage mature play (for you see that the one does not necessarily imply the other)?

Having read the thread, I'm not sure that you've actually got a consensus on what qualifies as "immature play". That makes the question pretty darned difficult to answer.

 

[barsoomcore]

Having read the thread, I'm not sure that you've actually got a consensus on what qualifies as "immature play". That makes the question pretty darned difficult to answer.

Oh, yeah? Well, what if I say I know what immature play is, and phooey on you! Nyah nyah nyah!

See? I know immature play.

Seriously, yeah, sure, and we can spend hours defining each and every term in our arguments. Even the important ones. I think I know what immature play is. I bet you think you know. And I bet we're not so different in our ideas.

According to your definition (and if you think it's a really unique one you ought to post it) of immature, how would you answer the questions?

 

[S'mon]

I noticed this at GenConUK. Even though all we were really doing was running about bashing stuff and trying to get into a big dungeon, you'd put a lot of work into the background. Where abouts does your normal game group play?

We play most Sundays 1pm in Tooting, south London, near Tooting Broadway underground station on the Northern line. Dispater on EN World (Lars, who played Sigurd the Viking in the game) is a player. We're still looking for more players! Or if you can't make it regularly but are ever in the area, give me an email and I'll fit you in.

 

[barsoomcore]

We play most Sundays 1pm in Tooting, south London, near Tooting Broadway underground station on the Northern line.

Tooting!? Orococo was from Tooting, wasn't he?

You probably never read The Borribles, did you? I don't often meet people who have. But hey, Tooting! Yay.

Pay no attention.

 

[Bragg Battleaxe]

I am still confused as to what aspects of the game we are talking about. This is a very confusing discussion.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

A few people have mentioned GURPS. As someone who plays both GURPS and D&D, I think I should make a comment here.

Both games have certain default styles of play (I'll leave rules modifications aside here - both games can be adjusted to fit any style of play... eventually).

In GURPS, no matter how good you will get stupid mistakes can still kill you. While a high-point fighter could easily cut through large numbers of opponents one at a time, if he is surrounded he is in deep trouble. You will have to retain some sense of tactics, or you will die.

In D&D at some point lower-level opponents will simply no longer pose a threat to you. They won't be able to hit you - and even if they did, they rarely do enough damage to threaten you.

Paradoxically, it is easier to die in D&D than GURPS if you face equally skilled opponents. In GURPS it is far more likely that you fall unconscious tha that you will die in combat. -10 hit points, on the other hand, are easily reached in D&D. Then again, it is often awfully easy to get ressurected in D&D...


And nothing of this has anything to do with those games' maturity, or lack thereof. Whether role-playing is mature or not depends more on the gamers than the game itself (though this theory obviously has its limits - view SenZar and its ilk, for example...)

In the end, our group plays different RPGs when we are in different moods. We play GURPS when we want to keep combat at least approximately believable. We play Shadowrun if we want to shoot things with assault rifles and level buildings with C-12.

And we play D&D if we want to see a few nobodies transform into mighty heroes who could stop whole armies without any help.

 

[S'mon]

OT Tooting

Tooting!? Orococo was from Tooting, wasn't he?

You probably never read The Borribles, did you? I don't often meet people who have. But hey, Tooting! Yay.

Pay no attention.

Oh, I've read the Borribles alright - good thing I wasn't a big Wombles fan! (Wombles are the cheerful, well-behaved litter-collecting children's TV characters who became the Rumbles in the Borribles...)

Tooting is also famous as the home of Citizen Smith, which probably means nothing to you either.
It is also very cool, and will soon be known as the New Notting Hill (so I tell everyone, in a pathetic attempt to inflate the value of my new house...)

 

[barsoomcore]

Re: OT Tooting

Oh, I've read the Borribles alright - good thing I wasn't a big Wombles fan! (Wombles are the cheerful, well-behaved litter-collecting children's TV characters who became the Rumbles in the Borribles...)

Yes, yes! Hurrah. What great books.

Tooting is also famous as the home of Citizen Smith, which probably means nothing to you either.

Very little, I'm afraid. TV show -- guy's a commie, yeah, okay.

Um, this thread was about what?

 

[Buttercup]

I can't tell where this thread is going anymore. Are we saying that no, D&D isn't an immature game, or are we now saying that D&D is immature and that's just fine?

I think people are saying that the concepts of mature and immature as applied to RPGs are so subjective as to be meaningless, and who the heck cares anyway?

 

[Umbran]

According to your definition (and if you think it's a really unique one you ought to post it) of immature, how would you answer the questions?

By my basic definition, the answers are "No" on both counts.

Play is mature when the character choices are made for emotionally mature reasons. The rules have little to no influence over this.