my thoughts exactly...just for the opposite reason
No one likes getting killed or sidelined. But c'mon, really? If you are a bench player on a sports team, would you go to a movie during a game, and then call the coach afterwards and say, "Hey! Didn't need me during the game, did you?"
I guess that depends, being bench is kinda common, my understanding as an out of shape non sports player is that you sit the bench then get called back up to play again. It's more like sitting out while your character is in another room or waiting your turn in initiative. My play ended... I wasn't benched I was out of the game...
If you are in a group of friends, and they start talking about something you have no interest in (RomComs?), do you go see a movie instead, and then call them a few hours later and say, "Hey, did you ever change the conversation?"
no, I would be quite for a minute or two then try to interject something I am interested it... (by the by love romcoms)
I think it would be infinitly more rude to expect a friend to sit through hours of a conversation he has no part in...
all of your examples are "Would you leave game if your character was stunned for 3d6 rounds" not "Would you leave game because your character is stuck with no way out"
Players get sidelined. There are many things to do if you get sidelined, including, but not limited to, the following:
ok...this should be funny
1. Every time your turn comes up, dramatically re-enact the way in which you are sidelined.
since the combat is over when would 'my turn' be...should I every few minutes for HOURs interrupt game to reenact?
2. With the DM's permission, take control of a monster or NPC and join the combat.
there was no combat, it was a trap, and I actually did ask but the DM is very against it
3. If you think your character will be permanently sidelined, start rolling a new one.
Yup... I could have done that...in fact since we meet every week I did that inbetween weeks
4. Work on the party maps, logs, loot sheets, etc.
no one wants me doing any of that
5. Interact with the rest of the people at the table and enjoy their company. After all, it's a social occasion. You might not be an active participant, but you will still have stories to tell.
you mean interrupt game?
The possibilities are limitless. Time with friends is scarce.
since we meet every week for years before and after that I disagree
Sit and enjoy the story, support your friends, share pizza, plus you never know - the DM *may* have provided a way of getting you out. Simply getting up and leaving smacks of selfishness.
well first I did ask if there was a chance of me getting out, and the DM confirmed not, so I left...second yes I was selfishly not wanting to spend hours doing nothing for 1 failed roll (well 2 I had Magic Ressitence 20% and a save)
The DM has probably spent 6+ hours getting everything ready for the session, and the moment it goes wrong for you you leave? If I was the DM I'd have been unhappy with you continuing to be part of the group - it's just plain rude and ignorant.
he spend way more then 6 hours working on the game...but I had no way to play it.
On these two points, the excerpted part you didn't quote answers your first objection-
"It's rule utilitarinism. For overall optimal fun (feelings of accomplishment), there must be times where there isn't fun."
I agree, but the point is that when no fun over rules the fun you need to decide to change something...
Yes, being sidelined isn't as fun in that moment. But victory is only sweet (fun) knowing that you accomplished something.
yes, but some 'fails' hurt the fun more.
Which also, in part, addresses your second comment. It's like a Monty Haul campaign. These can be fine, especially for young players. The reason they have a (IMO, deservedly) bad reputation is that the "winning" is meaningless without the possibility of losing. And not just the illusory possibility. The reason that most Monty Haul campaigns collapse after a while is that most people get tired of a lack of consequences in their games. Illusions cannot persist forever.
on this we agree