D&D 5E Is it possible that the Revised Ranger is not dead?

[CapnZapp]

The PHB Ranger isn't busted, just narratively dissatisfying to a significant number of players. Most people are already happy with the Ranger as-is, which is one of the main source of their reluctance to pursue a solution, they don't want to to put out the majority report that is already fine.

That's just the issue WotC has deigned to acknowledge. And you really don't need to repeat their ad copy - we get it, it is convenient for them to act as if nothing needs to be done...

The list is much longer than that, but I'll skip right to the end: how players drop the Beastmaster subclass like a hot turd.

 

[Parmandur]

That's just the issue WotC has deigned to acknowledge. And you really don't need to repeat their ad copy - we get it, it is convenient for them to act as if nothing needs to be done...

The list is much longer than that, but I'll skip right to the end: how players drop the Beastmaster subclass like a hot turd.

But that's the thing: while Ranger satisfaction is significantly out of line with the other Classes, most people are happy with it and keep playing with the Class. Most people are not dropping the Beastmaster, though a relatively large number are dissatisfied based on what they wanted it to be. But those who are dissatisfied are not all dissatisfied for the same reasons, and those who are already satisfied are likely not going to be satisfied by any "fix" introduced. That's why the old Revised Ranger died, it made the situation worse when tested.

What WoC found was a radical lack of consensus on what people wanted from a "Ranger," as it lacks an agreed upon identity among established and new D&D players.

 

[Gradine]

What WoC found was a radical lack of consensus on what people wanted from a "Ranger," as it lacks an agreed upon identity among established and new D&D players.

"Lacks an agreed upon identity" is basically the title of the history of the Ranger class in D&D ever since it tried to grow beyond "be Aragorn." Especially since the few themes people can agree upon are key to the identity of the Ranger are not restricted by class anymore. Anyone can track. Anyone can be good with animals. Anyone can be really good at surviving in nature. Anyone can dual-wield. And most of those abilities are generally relegated to non-combat pillars anyway, which leaves the Ranger feeling weak in the one pillar a lot of people argue is the most important in D&D.

Frankly, IMO, the concept of the Ranger just doesn't have enough of its own niche anymore to justify a base class. Which is why every attempt to do so has been met with disappointment.

 

[TwoSix]

Why? Because I am convinced the animal companion needs to be close to a full fighter in itself to be truly viable.

In other words, no, I'm not holding my breath either. I think MMearls is entirely clueless as to what a Beastmaster needs for basic functionality, given the high-lethality position a melee companion finds itself in.

If the concern is lethality, why not simply up the AC and HP of the companion to PC levels, but have the offense diminished to compensate? Give the ranger a spell that heals 1d10+Wis as a bonus action, but only on their companion. That's pretty much how WoW pets work.

 

[Parmandur]

"Lacks an agreed upon identity" is basically the title of the history of the Ranger class in D&D ever since it tried to grow beyond "be Aragorn." Especially since the few themes people can agree upon are key to the identity of the Ranger are not restricted by class anymore. Anyone can track. Anyone can be good with animals. Anyone can be really good at surviving in nature. Anyone can dual-wield. And most of those abilities are generally relegated to non-combat pillars anyway, which leaves the Ranger feeling weak in the one pillar a lot of people argue is the most important in D&D.

Frankly, IMO, the concept of the Ranger just doesn't have enough of its own niche anymore to justify a base class. Which is why every attempt to do so has been met with disappointment.

That's why I found the possibility of a ground-up redesign, with the terrain of origin being the Level 1 subclass, had potential. That had some possible legs as a fantasy archetype.

 

[Sacrosanct]

If the ranger pet is just as powerful as a stand alone class like a fighter, then the ranger themself must be neutered. It’s basic math. And it’s surprising why people who keep going on about how skilled they are at optimizing don’t see the basic math. 2x is greater than 1x. I.e, if both the ranger and their pet are equal to another class as individuals, then you as a player are effectively playing two characters. Needless to say there will be balance issues there. There has to be give and take when balancing a pet with master compared to every other class. Seems people just want the take part

 

[Azzy]

If the ranger pet is just as powerful as a stand alone class like a fighter, then the ranger themself must be neutered. It’s basic math. And it’s surprising why people who keep going on about how skilled they are at optimizing don’t see the basic math. 2x is greater than 1x. I.e, if both the ranger and their pet are equal to another class as individuals, then you as a player are effectively playing two characters. Needless to say there will be balance issues there. There has to be give and take when balancing a pet with master compared to every other class. Seems people just want the take part

Nobody is asking for an animal companion to be "as powerful as a stand alone class".

 

[TwoSix]

The revised ranger is not dead; however, it is very badly burnt.

 

[Raunalyn]

The revised ranger is not dead; however, it is very badly burnt.

It's getting better. It's so happy!!!!

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I am more interested in what other classes and subclasses are up for alternative class features. Mike Mearls isn't a fan of the design of the paladin and the bladelock, so they seem likely choices (I'm guessing the bladelock will get a specific magic weapon, ala 4e); also, I notice that there are a couple of NPC warlocks (the fathomer and the spider one that I think was in Volo's) that can assume alternate forms. I would be amused if the alternate sorcerer was all sorcerers wild magic sorcerers, but with different tables for different origins (and hopefully a more dependable way of triggering the table). I wouldn't mind the land druid getting more terrain-specific features. I'm fine with the current bard, but I could see a less magic version.