D&D 5E Is it right for WoTC to moralize us in an adventure module?

[BrokenTwin]

What exactly do you mean by a career criminal? Is she a slave trading organ harvesting monster, is she a Robin Hood type, or is she somewhere in between? If she's the latter... then yeah, I could definitely see the org being a little leery about you putting her to the sword just because it's an easier method to resolution. Or just because, you know, being willing to murder at the drop of a hat doesn't exactly scream Good Person.

I have zero knowledge of this adventure beyond a sliver of reading on this board, but criminal != evil.

 

[overgeeked]

If/when your moral code does not jive with a moral position that is implied in a WoTC adventure, how do you react?

My moral code does not jive with a lot of things. Some random adventure by a game company appealing to the lowest common denominator isn't high on my list of concerns. I shrug and ignore it.

What would you like to see ideally?

For people to not care about the "moral" stance of a random adventure published by a game company appealing to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Emoshin]

Fortunately they didn't!

I guess the only way to know for sure is to talk to the authors of Prisoner 13, Mazfroth's Mighty Digressions, etc. and ask them what exactly were their intentions when they chose to use so-and-so words? Which is highly unlikely to get a good answer.

What exactly do you mean by a career criminal? Is she a slave trading organ harvesting monster, is she a Robin Hood type, or is she somewhere in between? If she's the latter... then yeah, I could definitely see the org being a little leery about you putting her to the sword just because it's an easier method to resolution. Or just because, you know, being willing to murder at the drop of a hat doesn't exactly scream Good Person.

I have zero knowledge of this adventure beyond a sliver of reading on this board, but criminal != evil.

It's actually Neutral Evil. I know in TV we sometimes glorify criminals like mafia and kind of gloss over what they do to other people, but fortunately here the alignment is spelled out.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

Either the "good" ending of the adventure requires that the PCs unknowingly aid and abet a criminal mastermind, or not inquire too closely why she needs it. Neither is optimal for me.

I don't think the "good" ending has anything to do with the morality of their actions, but rather successfully completing the heist the party was assigned in a way that satisfies their employers.

"Bad" is failing the mission or the PCs crossing a line the Golden Vault doesn't want crossed (specifically killing and/or maiming the prisoner).

"Good" is completing the mission, i.e. getting the key to the client, whether by trade, jailbreak, or even just realizing the tattoos on her hand are the key and contriving a way to get the ten minutes of study necessary to accurately replicate them via magic or drawing without making any deals with her at all.

 

[BrokenTwin]

It's actually Neutral Evil. I know in TV we sometimes glorify criminals like mafia and kind of gloss over what they do to other people, but fortunately here the alignment is spelled out.

I was asking because there are plenty of people who are jailed and treated as criminals who either broke the law for good reasons or were criminalized for reasons completely outside of their control. If she's listed as NE (and actually written as such), then that answers my question, so thank you.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Assuming the OPs description is accurate:

1) Yes, it's totally fine for authors, WotC or otherwise, to moralize if that's what they want to do. Don't buy it if you don't like it, and if enough people don't buy it they will, if they are wise, adjust their approach.

2) That said, good adventure writing should provide an interesting path for multiple options and not assume that players will all choose a particular one.

 

[pukunui]

Also I am still frustrated trying to understand why a LG organization would decide it is good and lawful to:

• violate the jurisdiction of the prison
• condone unlawfully breaking into a prison
• etc. etc.
• all for materialistic enrichment (gold)?

Because the organization is run by metallic dragons. They undoubtedly consider themselves above petty humanoid laws, and they're all about the hoarding of wealth, even the "good" ones.

 

[Tonguez]

I havent read it but from discussions it seems the whole morality of the adventure is skewed? Why is a LG organisation running a black ops site? Why does the Golden vault want the info? Why is a heist the best option? Why is handing sensitive information to dodgy people the good outcome?

 

[Reynard]

Assuming the OPs description is accurate:

1) Yes, it's totally fine for authors, WotC or otherwise, to moralize if that's what they want to do. Don't buy it if you don't like it, and if enough people don't buy it they will, if they are wise, adjust their approach.

2) That said, good adventure writing should provide an interesting path for multiple options and not assume that players will all choose a particular one.

This is what the adventure actually says:

Finding the Key. When Prisoner 13 talks about the key, each character present can make a DC 19 Wisdom (Insight) check. If the check is successful, the character notices Prisoner 13 flexing her right hand and tracing a fingertip across the tattoo there when she mentions the key. The character deduces that the tattoo is the key.

Forcible Jailbreak. Taking Prisoner 13 alive and delivering her to Varrin is difficult but possible. She won’t go willingly and fights back if the characters try to force her. In that case, they’ll be hard-pressed to knock her unconscious and make their escape without alarming the guards and placing the prison on high alert. If a fight breaks out with closed doors between the battle and the nearest guards, on initiative count 0, make a DC 15 Wisdom (Perception) check for the guards to see if they notice the commotion. If they succeed, roll initiative for the guards. They investigate on the following round.

Trade for the Key. If the characters acquire the prisoner files from the warden’s office (area R22), Prisoner 13 demands to read them somewhere outside her cell. She takes 20 minutes to read through the documents and telepathically relay the information to her agents for later use. Following that, she reveals that the tattoo on her right hand is the key to the vault. She allows the characters to study it so they can replicate its image using magic such as disguise self or minor illusion, or even copy it with pen and ink. In any case, a character must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence (Arcana) check to correctly re-create the tattoo, which requires 10 minutes of study or drawing. The characters can retry if they fail, at the cost of more time and more risk of discovery.

Last Resort. A gruesome but effective option is killing Prisoner 13 and taking her body back, or just her right hand. If the characters are working for the Golden Vault, they know the organization would not approve of this method. The characters receive no reward from the organization if they kill or mutilate Prisoner 13.

Basically, the PCs have options, but if they go for murder or mutilation, the Vault does not pay them for their service (and probably does not hire them again). It isn't moralizing so much as playing the organization with a certain set of standards for behavior for its contractors.

 

[Reynard]

I havent read it but from discussions it seems the whole morality of the adventure is skewed? Why is a LG organisation running a black ops site? Why does the Golden vault want the info? Why is a heist the best option? Why is handing sensitive information to dodgy people the good outcome?

It's free and easy to read. Get Prisoner 13 at no cost - D&D Beyond

It isn't a black ops site -- it is a remote, maximum security prison for the world's worst criminals. The PCs are hired to get information, not assassinate someone.

Man I hate it when people make me defend WotC...