Is it WotC’s responsibility to bring people to the hobby?

[Leviatham]

Bigger? Yes. Much bigger? I don't know. Honestly, I think RPGs have had their day, at least in tabletop form.

And that way of thinking is part of what's driving the decline of the hobby.

 

[the Jester]

First of all, no, it isn't WotC's responsibility to bring new people into the hobby.

However, it's nothing but good for them to do so, and it's stupid of them to pass up the opportunity to do so if it takes minimal or only a reasonable amount of investment.

But really, I replied because I felt it was important to address this comment:

Nop. I didn't really know of that incident. I am aware of some people who, after publishing some 4th Edition home brewed material, received legal letters from WtoC for using a few lines of text from the books.

Even if technically it shouldn't be done, common sense didn't prevail.

Sorry, dude, you're completely wrong here.

If WotC doesn't work to guard their intellectual property when they know of a violation, they give up their right to guard it later. Anyone who cuts and pastes text from the books into their own stuff is not just asking for a cease and desist letter, they are OBLIGATING WotC to send them one.

Note, too, that a c&d letter is the nice way of handling these things- it's WotC saying, "Look, we can go to court over this, but wouldn't it be easier if you just stopped violating our IP?"

Now, that doesn't speak to the overall issue of intellectual property rights and how screwed up our approach to them is in the current era, but the fact is, as long as the laws concerning IP are what they are, WotC MUST take steps to guard their IP.

 

[Leviatham]

But why is it my "responsiblity" to grow the hobby? I have a group that I play with, I'm not looking for new players, so why should I start going around looking for more people to play with? Or to get to play?

Now, if one is looking for other people to player then sure you can/should be reaching out to people you think would be interested.

Because if you're not prepared to help the hobby expand and grow, you shouldn't be prepared to complain when games you like are no longer produced. And they won't be produced much longer.

This apathy you display is exactly the attitude I mentioned in my OP and the attitude that's so pernicious to the hobby.

 

[delericho]

But why is it my "responsiblity" to grow the hobby?

For the same reason as it is WotC's - if you want to continue playing then, eventually, you will need to recruit new people for your group.

I know, I know - I didn't believe it either. When I left university, I had more players than I could handle, I had a wider circle of gamers I could call on, and it looked like things would never change.

But then a few guys drifted away. Another had kids, and suddenly couldn't commit. Two left the country. And suddenly that dozen players had dropped to three, the minimum that felt comfortable for a good game... and most weeks there was at least one guy who couldn't make it.

Ten years from now, it's likely that half of your existing group will no longer be there. Sure, you might be an exception... but don't count on it. Now, do you really have enough players that you can cut by half and still go on? What if you don't get to choose which players, so are just as likely to lose your most reliable player, the one who leads the group, and the best-liked player?

 

[Leviatham]

First of all, no, it isn't WotC's responsibility to bring new people into the hobby.

However, it's nothing but good for them to do so, and it's stupid of them to pass up the opportunity to do so if it takes minimal or only a reasonable amount of investment.

But really, I replied because I felt it was important to address this comment:



Sorry, dude, you're completely wrong here.

If WotC doesn't work to guard their intellectual property when they know of a violation, they give up their right to guard it later. Anyone who cuts and pastes text from the books into their own stuff is not just asking for a cease and desist letter, they are OBLIGATING WotC to send them one.

Note, too, that a c&d letter is the nice way of handling these things- it's WotC saying, "Look, we can go to court over this, but wouldn't it be easier if you just stopped violating our IP?"

Now, that doesn't speak to the overall issue of intellectual property rights and how screwed up our approach to them is in the current era, but the fact is, as long as the laws concerning IP are what they are, WotC MUST take steps to guard their IP.

And don't you think that a letter saying "Hey, please only use *this* and *this* from the books. Anything else shouldn't be used. If you want to use it, please ask and we'll discuss it".

As someone who's given massive bollockings to my friends for copying games or downloading illegal PDFs, I am very much up for copy-rights and IP protection.

As a blogger about games I love, I am also very much up for dialogue and common sense rather than the corporate approach. One thing is to use material in commercial products - a big no-no - and another is to use two lines of text in a fan create website with no commercial interests.

By doing that so over-zealously, WotC are shooting themselves in the foot because that guy will go to another game, thus promoting something of no benefit to WotC.

 

[Serendipity]

Is WotC responsible for bringing people into the hobby? Of course not. But in the long term, it's good business.

 

[Leviatham]

Is WotC responsible for bringing people into the hobby? Of course not. But in the long term, it's good business.

Well, it certainly is convenient. I totally agree with you there.

 

[Elf Witch]

You are wrong in thinking edition wars only happen in DnD. Shadowrun had a huge edition war when its 4E came out. It fragmented the fans.

I have seen the same thing with the new editions of Vampire from White Wolf.

I do think that helping grow the hobby is part of WOTC responsibility. They can do this my spending their advertising dollars wisely.

I think what they are doing right now with the playtests for the new edition is an excellent example of reaching out to the gaming community in the hopes of getting more people to play the current DnD.

 

[El Mahdi]

For someone who's not accepted the premise of a question, you've responded to it rather eloquently.

Thank You. I feel I have the ability to turn a phrase or two also.

However, responding to a question and not accepting the premise are not the same thing, nor mutually exclusive.

I would love to see the face of one of WotC execs if you told them that.

I think you'd be surprised by the lack of a reaction. I'm certain they already accept this as an immutable truth.

No company sees work, or sales, gone to a competing product as a "win-win situation". Whether they are or not is a different matter, but they will do their level best to attract people to their product, not to any other. Why should Hasbro see as a triumph for the toy industry when Barbie outsells them?

To use your hypothetical: I think Hasbro would be more than happy to extend the right to make accessories for Barbie, especially if making such accessories was economically unfeasable for themselves, but would significantly increase sales of Barbie.

Expanding the Market does not exclusively mean "Expanding your own Market". Especially when one's own revenue stream may have reached it's limit with current offerings (again, hypothetically...I'm not making the case that this is currently so for WotC or our hobby/market). Expanding the Market for everybody is sometimes the only way to increase one's own potential revenue. Conversely, making choices that keeps the market small in order to restrict competitors, also restricts the potential of your own revenue.

That is unproven and because of the risk, unlikely to be undertaken. Safer (and wiser) is to make campaigns to promote their own products.

Of course it's wise to support your own products and market. I haven't said otherwise. Business however is not a single aspect endeavor. Can one expand their revenue even when ignoring some aspects of their business environment...? Sure. But one is never going to maximize one's potential without remaining aware of and adressing all aspects of one's business. Ignoring an aspect that could significantly expand one's profits is foolish. If one does that, then they'd have no business being in business.

And again that's where we disagree. I believe it is also down to us players to promote and enlarge the hobby as a whole, with or without D&D.

I don't disagree that we players are also one of the best means of expanding our hobby. I just disagree with you that it isn't WotC's responsibility too.

Your OP didn't posit the question: "Is it exclusively WotC's responsibility to bring people into the hobby?" All you asked was whether it was WotC's responsibility...or ours. I don't believe it's either/or...it's both.

However, I do disagree with some of your assertions, and I agree completely with what you mentioned of your friends beliefs.

I don't agree with your statement that the image of D&D as the flagship of RPG's is dilluting. I'm seeing more and more references to D&D in popular culture than I've ever seen before, including placement and actual play on many popular TV shows (Eureka, Supernatural, and The Big Bang Theory to name a few). And I've seen casual references (including the name Dungeons & Dragons) on many large prime-time network programs (West Wing, Fringe, Castle, etc.). This may not be noticable in Europe, but here in the States it's becoming more and more common. I'd be willing to bet everything I have and everything I ever will have, that the number of non-gamers that have heard of Dungeons & Dragons, and have never heard of RPG's, Role-Playing (in reference to our hobby), or any other such word describing our hobby, are the vast majority.

I also know that your belief that games other than D&D have not suffered edition wars is incorrect. Less vocal or less prominent does not mean non-existant. You may not have noticed them, but they do exist.

As for this:

For some reason, when [it's] about our beloved D&D, we (and I will put everyone in the same bag for once, even though I know it’s an unfair generalisation) become petty and pathetic and fight over unimportant issues that can be resolved by using what RPGs promote so well: a bit of imagination.

...I think the above is an overly narrow vision. A more accurate statement is: "For some reason, when it comes to anything, people...all people, will at one time or another become petty and pathetic and fight over unimportant issues that can be resolved by understanding and incusiveness."

This above all else is why I know, even if I hadn't seen them myself, that edition wars have occured with games other than D&D.


I also find it interesting that you believe our hobby/market/industry is not shrinking (though I have no concrete information if it is or not), while also going on to say that you believe our hobby/market/industry is not expanding... Your position seems inconsistent.

First of all I don’t believe the hobby is shrinking. It certainly is not growing at the rate I’d like it to, but it hardly getting smaller...

The number of companies being created at the moment is unprecedented...

...this is not to say that enough new people are coming into the hobby...

...when is about our beloved D&D, we (and I will put everyone in the same bag for once, even though I know it’s an unfair generalisation)...

...as for the market not expanding; that is everyone’s fault...

...then we complain that the hobby is shrinking...

You seem to contradict yourself to the point I'm not really sure if you think the game is shrinking, expanding, or remaining static...as you seemed to imply all three at different times in your OP. Like how can there be an unprecedented amount of new companies, yet the market is not expanding...? If that was true, wouldn't the market collapse...? Wouldn't it be impossible for new companies to make money if the market is not expanding...? Or do you feel that new companies are simply dividing up a static pie into more and more pieces, and dilluting revenues for everybody...?

Your statements seem to me to display a lack of understanding in how businesses and markets work.

Personally, I think our hobby is expanding, though not expanding strongly at the moment. However, I believe that will significantly change once 5E is released...or at least I hope it will.

 

[Leviatham]

You are wrong in thinking edition wars only happen in DnD. Shadowrun had a huge edition war when its 4E came out. It fragmented the fans.

I have seen the same thing with the new editions of Vampire from White Wolf.

I stand corrected on that one. I haven't seen the Shadowrun or Vampire edition wars rage.

I do think that helping grow the hobby is part of WOTC responsibility. They can do this my spending their advertising dollars wisely.

I think what they are doing right now with the playtests for the new edition is an excellent example of reaching out to the gaming community in the hopes of getting more people to play the current DnD.

You do illustrate my point there. More people to play the current DnD, not any other game.

Their responsibility is to their product, not to any other, even if it'd be convenient for them to do so.