Is it WotC’s responsibility to bring people to the hobby?

[Jester David]

WotC does have a responsibility to get new people into the game, but I think they've proven over the last 4-8 years that they have no idea how to get new people into the game.

I adore 3e. It's my edition of choice. I loved 2e for a long, long time and played many a game, but eventually I left they hobby and it was 3e that brought me back.
How?
I walked into my local comic store (looking for comics). They also sold RPGs and had a BIG cardboard display with 3e. So I bought them. Yay early 20s and disposable income.
I had no idea 3e existed until then.
Because I was not a part of the hobby I was completely out of the loop.

Late 3e and the miniatures game had comic ads. Not a bad idea, but not exactly reaching an uninformed mass.
Nothing for 4e.
The only place I've ever seen ads for 4e D&D was web ads on Penny Arcade.

Likewise, the big initiatives for getting new players into D&D are Essentials (how will new payers know about it?) The centerpiece was the gift-ready Red Box that let you game for a long weekend for just a few dollars less that one of the player books. (The Pathfinder box is far superior and shows HOW to make starter set.) And Encounters; again, how do people know it exists?

The WotC marketing department needs to step up. New ways of getting the message "play D&D" out to the masses. New programs and a focus on the core rules. Really get those books continually available on book store shelves instead of just the newest accessory.

 

[Leviatham]

WotC does have a responsibility to get new people into the game, but I think they've proven over the last 4-8 years that they have no idea how to get new people into the game.

I adore 3e. It's my edition of choice. I loved 2e for a long, long time and played many a game, but eventually I left they hobby and it was 3e that brought me back.
How?
I walked into my local comic store (looking for comics). They also sold RPGs and had a BIG cardboard display with 3e. So I bought them. Yay early 20s and disposable income.
I had no idea 3e existed until then.
Because I was not a part of the hobby I was completely out of the loop.

Late 3e and the miniatures game had comic ads. Not a bad idea, but not exactly reaching an uninformed mass.
Nothing for 4e.
The only place I've ever seen ads for 4e D&D was web ads on Penny Arcade.

Likewise, the big initiatives for getting new players into D&D are Essentials (how will new payers know about it?) The centerpiece was the gift-ready Red Box that let you game for a long weekend for just a few dollars less that one of the player books. (The Pathfinder box is far superior and shows HOW to make starter set.) And Encounters; again, how do people know it exists?

The WotC marketing department needs to step up. New ways of getting the message "play D&D" out to the masses. New programs and a focus on the core rules. Really get those books continually available on book store shelves instead of just the newest accessory.

I sure agree with that!

My OP though, related to my belief that it's not down to WotC to promote any other game than D&D and that it is down to us players to promote the hobby as a whole.

 

[delericho]

OK, the point is, have you brought any of your piper friends into the hobby? Or at work? Have you started a group in your local game store? Or in your library?

Actually, yes. I started up the Falkirk RPG Meetup, which attracted a bunch of new gamers, and also served to unify three of the existing RPG groups in the area - groups that had, until then, been largely unaware of one another.

And what we found was the success bred success - once you got 30 people signed up, it was much easier to get together a group for any game you wanted to play than it was when we were struggling along at 10 members. And group retention was a lot easier as well, because people could play whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, and didn't have to sit out for months waiting for a spot to open up in an ongoing campaign.

It does? Where?

From your OP (emphasis mine):

First of all I don’t believe the hobby is shrinking. It certainly is not growing at the rate I’d like it to, but it hardly getting smaller. The number of companies being created at the moment is unprecedented, not in a small measure thanks to Kickstarter and other crowd-funding websites. Judging by the number of projects being successfully funded (and I don’t have a precise number), there is still plenty of interest in the hobby.

However this is not to say that enough new people are coming into the hobby.

"Not growing at the rate I'd like" and "not enough new people" imply that it is growing, and that there are some new people.

Demand can only exist from existing customers, people who already know the hobby. I am not talking about those. I am talking about people who do not know the hobby, or have never been interested in it, giving it a go because the opportunity presents itself.

It's a chicken-and-egg situation. You need the existing customers to attract new customers. The more existing customers you have, the more of a 'buzz' you have around the industry, the easier it is to attract new people.

Consider: how many people have read "Fifty Shades of Gray" or "The Da Vinci Code" because someone told them they simply had to read it? And how many read them because of the outstanding quality of the books themselves?

If they want to survive they want to sell D&D, not any other game. Promoting D&D promotes the hobby as a by product and that will give them money and benefit the hobby.

To expect any company will pay to promote something that is not their product is naive.

I'm not actually asking WotC to do anything. Honestly, I don't care - they're a large company, they've long-since lost me as a customer, so while I don't wish them any harm neither will I go out of my way to assist them.

But what I'm saying is that WotC would be better off if they stopped fighting against other companies and instead worked with them to grow the overall hobby, so they could all benefit. And they should do that even if it meant accepting a smaller percentage share of a larger market. Because 40% of 2,000,000 customers is more than 75% of 1,000,000.

To that end, they really should reinstate the OGL for 5e. And they should probably open up 4e via the OGL as well. Plus, they really should arrange some sort of licensing agreement, to get 'official' 5e conversions of the Pathfinder Adventure Paths out there in some form (whether from Paizo.com, Wizards.com, or some third-party source).

Stop fighting over the scraps (a route that is leading to the death of D&D), and instead work together so all can survive.

To leave it sort of on topic, would you really expect Games Workshop to promote wargames so people can buy Malifaux?

If it was a matter of survival? Yes.

 

[Mark CMG]

If hobby gaming is to grow, it is the responsibility of everyone, publishers and players alike, to bring new blood into the fold. WotC does a really good job of diversifying their game lines and making sure to reach out to potential gamers of all stripes. I think the crossover effect of having boardgames and miniatures games that lead to RPG play has been touted more by WotC than most if not all other companies. The amount of product placement I see from WotC and other large companies in the last decade has been tremendous and I don't doubt it helps draw attention to hobby gaming. I guess someone could claim that more can be done but I think those that are already making the effort, including WotC, do a pretty good job overall.

 

[Leviatham]

Actually, yes. I started up the Falkirk RPG Meetup, which attracted a bunch of new gamers, and also served to unify three of the existing RPG groups in the area - groups that had, until then, been largely unaware of one another.

And what we found was the success bred success - once you got 30 people signed up, it was much easier to get together a group for any game you wanted to play than it was when we were struggling along at 10 members. And group retention was a lot easier as well, because people could play whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, and didn't have to sit out for months waiting for a spot to open up in an ongoing campaign.

That answers the question I asked in my OP. Don't you think the hobby would be much bigger if everyone did the same?

From your OP (emphasis mine):



"Not growing at the rate I'd like" and "not enough new people" imply that it is growing, and that there are some new people.

OK, I take the semantic point. I should have said that not enough new people are coming into the hobby.

It's a chicken-and-egg situation. You need the existing customers to attract new customers. The more existing customers you have, the more of a 'buzz' you have around the industry, the easier it is to attract new people.

Consider: how many people have read "Fifty Shades of Gray" or "The Da Vinci Code" because someone told them they simply had to read it? And how many read them because of the outstanding quality of the books themselves?

And insist that we don't use word mouth outside the gaming circles often enough. You might, I certainly do, but the average? I doubt it.

I'm not actually asking WotC to do anything. Honestly, I don't care - they're a large company, they've long-since lost me as a customer, so while I don't wish them any harm neither will I go out of my way to assist them.

But what I'm saying is that WotC would be better off if they stopped fighting against other companies and instead worked with them to grow the overall hobby, so they could all benefit. And they should do that even if it meant accepting a smaller percentage share of a larger market. Because 40% of 2,000,000 customers is more than 75% of 1,000,000.

That is a different scenario. If the biggest companies (and small ones too) got organised and resurrected the RPGA, I'd be happy as pie. However it'd have to be a common project, not by just one company. It is a completely utopian idea that will never happen (and if it did it'd be short lived because I can't imagine how those companies fighting for attention would be able to work together).

To that end, they really should reinstate the OGL for 5e. And they should probably open up 4e via the OGL as well. Plus, they really should arrange some sort of licensing agreement, to get 'official' 5e conversions of the Pathfinder Adventure Paths out there in some form (whether from Paizo.com, Wizards.com, or some third-party source).

Stop fighting over the scraps (a route that is leading to the death of D&D), and instead work together so all can survive.

So that would benefit them. That would help people get into, or back to, D&D.

If it was a matter of survival? Yes.

That would be a nail in their coffin. Haven't researched it, but I'd love to hear a similar situation in which a company promoting its market and not just its services has gone from rags to riches.

 

[delericho]

That answers the question I asked in my OP. Don't you think the hobby would be much bigger if everyone did the same?

Bigger? Yes. Much bigger? I don't know. Honestly, I think RPGs have had their day, at least in tabletop form.

 

[BobROE]

That answers the question I asked in my OP. Don't you think the hobby would be much bigger if everyone did the same?

But why is it my "responsiblity" to grow the hobby? I have a group that I play with, I'm not looking for new players, so why should I start going around looking for more people to play with? Or to get to play?

Now, if one is looking for other people to player then sure you can/should be reaching out to people you think would be interested.

 

[gamerprinter]

I think it's the responsibility of every company to bring new customers to them, whatever it is: RPGs, automobilies, services, etc. Despite WotC being the industry leader, at least in the past, and to some degree today, they are only responsible for bringing new customers to their game - not the industry as a whole. Not only do not have the responsibility, they completely lack the acumen to accomplish such a thing.

I know that Paizo, as the number 2 company (#1 right now) has worked hard to expand their market in many innovative ways to bring new customers to their game. And to some extent they are succeeding.

Not that any RPG company has the qualities that will attract any large number of new players, but I have far more faith in Paizo than WotC.

Most non-gamers that I mention D&D too, say "Isn't that a video game?" or "They still do that?" - so for the vast majority of those who don't know, RPGs don't even exist anymore, except as MMOs.

 

[Argyle King]

I am not sure if I agree that D&D is still the flagship product when it comes to rpgs in general. Is it the biggest brand name? Yes, I would say so -in spite of several competitors making a lot of progress. However, I am not sure that I would say it is currently the best product, and I am also not sure that I would currently say it should be the product in the lead. When I first learned to play rpgs, RPG was more-or-less synonymous with D&D; I no longer feel that is the case.

I believe the hobby would be far healthier if players, GMs, and the gamer community as a whole chose to support games based on quality and what they like to play rather than buying out of name recognition. I feel that this whole idea that D&D needs to be healthy is something of a self-defeating problem. If another game (and company) were supported, they would rise to take the place of WoTC when it comes to rpgs, and there would be a 'gateway game' and all of those other things.

Some people argue that D&D is necessary because that is the easiest game to find players for. However, part of the reason it is easy to find players for it is because there are (or at least appear to be) so many voices advocating buying the game just to buy the game. It seems logical to me that other games would be easier to find players for if the community would advocate buying (or at least trying) those games rather than being stuck on the idea that we have to buy a certain product from a certain company if we want our hobby to be healthy.

There are plenty of good companies and products out there. Why not support some of them? In recent years, Paizo has done very well, and I think that is just a small glimpse of what kind of power consumers have. Even if you don't like their product, the fact is that they showed it is possible for the hobby to survive without WoTC.

Look at the Ennie nominations for some ideas if you are unfamiliar with some of the other companies which are producing rpgs. There are a few companies other than Paizo and WoTC who have been nominated for multiple categories.

 

[Leviatham]

If hobby gaming is to grow, it is the responsibility of everyone, publishers and players alike, to bring new blood into the fold. WotC does a really good job of diversifying their game lines and making sure to reach out to potential gamers of all stripes. I think the crossover effect of having boardgames and miniatures games that lead to RPG play has been touted more by WotC than most if not all other companies. The amount of product placement I see from WotC and other large companies in the last decade has been tremendous and I don't doubt it helps draw attention to hobby gaming. I guess someone could claim that more can be done but I think those that are already making the effort, including WotC, do a pretty good job overall.

I can't disagree more.

Although is true that they have diversified well into boardgames (and they will probably continue to do so. They certainly should) that is not their core product. Unless they're trying to make it. I don't know that.

Also, I would argue that, at least around me, I have seen role playing gamers getting into boardgames because of D&D boardgames. I haven't seen any boardgamers getting into D&D RPG because of the same boardgames. If they did, it would benefit WotC, not any other company.

Could you give a couple of examples of product placement? I can see none in Europe.

If they're doing such a good job, why isn't the hobby bigger?

I would also like to get back to my initial question, why aren't gamers doing more? Why should it all be down to the publishers?