D&D 5E Is Kratos a good representative of a high-level martial?

[ECMO3]

I've been playing GOW (2018) and GOW:Ragnarok. Both fantastic games but as I was playing them, I wondered if Kratos was enough of a fantasy for those who want "powerful high-level martials."

He's a god, but he also feels fairly grounded. He'd fit perfectly with the Barbarian fantasy and while he doesn't necessarily punch mountains like an anime protagonist, he does have epic-level feats under his belt.

To be a "good" representative of a high-level 5E martial he would need to have at least some spells.

 

[DND_Reborn]

To be a "good" representative of a high-level 5E martial he would need to have at least some spells.

Not really, just write features which would allow him to do "god-like" feats of strength and endurance, etc.

 

[Asisreo]

I would argue that it isn't what high level martials get to do.

Let's compare the same fighter at different levels.

Let's assume this fighter rolled an 18 and therefore starts with 20 STR (if you'd rather, we could instead assume a 6th level fighter that used the array and put their ASIs into STR).

At 20th level this fighter also has a 20 STR.

The 1st level fighter can lift 600 lbs. The 20th level fighter can also lift 600 lbs.

The 1st level fighter can make a running jump of 20 ft. The 20th level fighter can make a running jump of 20 ft.

Of course, the DM can allow the fighter to exceed those limits with an athletics check! Well, the 1st level fighter has an athletics bonus of +7, while the 20th level fighter has a whopping +11.

The 20th level fighter can take more damage than the 1st level fighter, and can deal more damage than the 1st level fighter. Not Kratos levels of damage, IMO (admittedly, I haven't played the games, though I have watched some gameplay). That's about it.

I'd argue Kratos is more barbarian than fighter, in which there are fundamental differences between a level 1 barbarian's capabilities and a level 20 barbarian.

For example, a level 1 barbarian lifts 600lbs. A level 20 barbarian lifts 810lbs. Not including subclasses or races that can boost capabilities further.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I'd argue Kratos is more barbarian than fighter, in which there are fundamental differences between a level 1 barbarian's capabilities and a level 20 barbarian.

For example, a level 1 barbarian lifts 600lbs. A level 20 barbarian lifts 810lbs. Not including subclasses or races that can boost capabilities further.

Okay, but make the same comparison between level 1 and level 19 barbarian, and you see the same issues.

Subclasses and races don't count if we're talking things that all martials should get. Those things need to be baked into the base classes.

 

[dave2008]

Show me a stat block (since I have no clue what you are talking about) and I'll let you know.

Well they were posted on EnWorld no long ago: Kratos god of war

 

[Fanaelialae]

I'd argue Kratos is more barbarian than fighter, in which there are fundamental differences between a level 1 barbarian's capabilities and a level 20 barbarian.

For example, a level 1 barbarian lifts 600lbs. A level 20 barbarian lifts 810lbs. Not including subclasses or races that can boost capabilities further.

Apologies for two responses, but I had a few more thoughts on this.

Even if you compare the level 1 vs the level 20 barbarian, is it really Kratos levels of power?

Lifting 210 more lbs?

Jumping 4 more feet?

Having a +13 Athletics vs a +7? (This is almost double, so I'll grant that this is the closest one out of the three to being in a decent range.)

I'll grant that it's better than what the fighter gets. But it doesn't exactly scream epic (at least not to me). A bad 1st level spell (Jump) triples (+200%) your jump distance. The barbarian capstone 20th level ability adds +20%. Granted, that's not all the capstone does, but still...

 

[Haplo781]

Show me a stat block (since I have no clue what you are talking about) and I'll let you know.

Gimme a bit to install the 4e character builder

 

[SteveC]

One of the issues that D&D has, and isn't going away, is the notion that martial characters are bound by some element of the real world, even at high levels. In older editions, you would have these deficiencies made up by magic items. I remember a 1E fighter a friend had with winged boots and a hammer of the thunderbolts. We all joked that this was a Thor wannabe character.

When we largely decouple magic items from the game... you're left with what I'd call a bland chassis for these characters in contrast with spell casters. This could be fixed, but I believe it's working as intended. The mindset seems to be that they shouldn't be able to do things like that. It's not something I like, but I just don't play martials as a result.

 

[CreamCloud0]

One of the issues that D&D has, and isn't going away, is the notion that martial characters are bound by some element of the real world, even at high levels. In older editions, you would have these deficiencies made up by magic items. I remember a 1E fighter a friend had with winged boots and a hammer of the thunderbolts. We all joked that this was a Thor wannabe character.

When we largely decouple magic items from the game... you're left with what I'd call a bland chassis for these characters in contrast with spell casters. This could be fixed, but I believe it's working as intended. The mindset seems to be that they shouldn't be able to do things like that. It's not something I like, but I just don't play martials as a result.

Yeah the belief that if they aren’t explicitly ‘magicial’ that they’re implicitly limited by the mundane world, there doesn’t seem to be an allowance for the idea that someone who’s part of a fantasy world can do fantastical things without magic or some sort of other ‘justification’ for their feats (being a demigod, the chosen one, magically biologically enhanced, ect...)

 

[SteveC]

Yeah the belief that if they aren’t explicitly ‘magicial’ that they’re implicitly limited by the mundane world, there doesn’t seem to be an allowance for the idea that someone who’s part of a fantasy world can do fantastical things without magic or some sort of other ‘justification’ for their feats (being a demigod, the chosen one, magically biologically enhanced, ect...)

For me, when you reach a "heroic" tier character level (whatever you define that is, I honestly don't have a good grasp on tiers of play in 5E) everyone becomes magical in some way. In sort of the same way that a Wuxia character would be able to do things, a fighter or other martial character gains those powers. I realize at the same time that is not traditional D&D and don't expect that to change. I know enough people would be furious at that notion because I've argued it for the Martial power source in 4E.

Would it break things if a Champion Fighter at level 7 could jump like a Jump spell all the time? I don't think it would, but I know that I'm in the minority here for D&D players. That's why I play spellcasters in 5E.