D&D 4E Is my friend's unwillingness to try 4e irrational?

[Greg K]

But, not wanting to play them? It just doesn't seem that big of a deal.

Not for you. For myself, the system matters greatly. There are a lot of games in which the system gets in my way of enjoyment including editions of DND prior to Third Edition (and much of my enjoyment of 3e is dependent upon both utilizing material from Unearthed Arcana and third party products and not playing in a kitchen sink setting).

Most of the people that I have gamed with since leaving high school have also been unwilling to play certain games either due to the mechanics of a system. I even have one friend that is vehemently opposed to playing any superhero rpg.

 

[Cadfan]

But it might as well be ritual cutting and self mutalization.

I recognize all the words, but I can't seem to grasp the sentence. Like fog, it keeps slipping away.

 

[Ourph]

As opinionated as people are here, I highly doubt many people are going to "suffer" when playing 4e. Do people really vehemently despise their time playing any RPG (with a few notable exceptions)? If I'm not running the game, I'm willing to play almost anything (again, notable exceptions). I can understand someone not wanting to run 4e or run 3e or run GURPs or whatever. But, not wanting to play them? It just doesn't seem that big of a deal.

There are a lot of things I really enjoy doing that I give up to spend time with my friends and play RPGs (including spending time with other friends, who don't play RPGs). In that context, the games the group chooses to play are pretty important. I don't have to be "suffer[ing]" from participating in the game in order to decide I could be having even MORE fun doing something else.

 

[Dragonblade]

Dragonblade,

I'm not jumping on the "strongarming tactics" bandwagon, but it does seem obvious to me that (if possible) you should consider playing 3e with those who want 3e, and playing 4e with those who want 4e. I can understand your eagerness to try the newest edition, but that doesn't mean you have to abandon the old game, does it? After all, if you are like most of us, you should have massive amounts of still-unused 3e materials.

I'm more than willing to keep playing 3.5 if Bob or someone else in the group wants to keep running a 3.5 game. And yes, I have a ton of 3.5 material. Probably more than most people on this board.

Though, part of the reason I have so much stuff is that I was always on this quest to get that one book or supplement that would "fix" the game for me and somehow make it all work together in a way that it wouldn't before. One book did come close. The Bo9S. And the Warlock in Complete Arcane and then the Reserve Feats in Complete Mage came even closer.

Then when I heard about 4e, and found out it was going to incorporate all of my favorite elements, I realized that 4e is shaping up to be my dream edition of D&D. Sure, its possible that I will be disappointed and it may let me down. But I'm definitely going to play it to death first.

Anyway, I think I got the advice and insights on this thread that I was looking for. Whether you saw it from my perspective or Bob's, thank you for your input.

If the mods want to close it thats cool with me, but if you gents would like to carry on the conversation, that's cool too.

 

[Ourph]

But are you really going to get more pleasure out of this game? YOu're taking a risk, and he doesn't want to do that. Half your group is very suspect about it. Why cause so much disention in a stable group.

Well, if the DM wants to run 4e, then he should run 4e. I've always been a big advocate of the DM running pretty much whatever he wants. I don't think anyone should be giving Dragonblade's group a hard time because they are switching to 4e. If the DM wants to run 4e (and refuses to run any more 3.5e, which is what it sounds like), plus the rest of the group (save Bob) is excited about it, then it sounds like switching is the right thing to do. Bob's got another game of 3.5e he can enjoy and it sounds like Dragonblade's group will be leaving the door open for him playing in the 4e game if he should change his mind.

In all, that sounds like a very fair and, dare I say, rational resolution to the situation.

 

[Aus_Snow]

As opinionated as people are here, I highly doubt many people are going to "suffer" when playing 4e. Do people really vehemently despise their time playing any RPG (with a few notable exceptions)? If I'm not running the game, I'm willing to play almost anything (again, notable exceptions). I can understand someone not wanting to run 4e or run 3e or run GURPs or whatever. But, not wanting to play them? It just doesn't seem that big of a deal.

I hate to admit it , but I suspect you're right in that doubt, by and large.

Actually, the player attitude you refer to applies in my case, as much as it does in many others. I'll play just about anything, once at least. Running a game though, I'm *far* more particular - it's the system I choose, with whatever house rules I prefer. And that is that. And I'm totally cool with that approach from other DMs, as a player (within reasonable limits.)

Damn, there goes my '3.5 grognard' cred. . .

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

After reading the thread and stopping around here:

Do people really vehemently despise their time playing any RPG (with a few notable exceptions)?

I reply: Some really, really do.

I went through a similar problem with the conversion to 3Ed and again with 3.5.

I was really jazzed about the changes I saw in the teasers for 3Ed, and when the time came, I was really gung ho about the switchover- and I wasn't dissapointed. I was similarly impressed with 3.5.

However, one of my 2 main gaming buddies (since 1985!) was definitely not on board, and didn't buy his first 3Ed book until a few months before the announcement of 3.5, and I think he bought a 3.5 PHB in 2007.

My current group (which includes the stick in the mud- aka SIM) is similarly reticent to try 3.5, though there is currently some movement in that direction (albeit piecemeal).

But SIM is even more difficult to deal with than that...he refuses to play any RPG that isn't D&D.

I mean that.

No other FRPGS. No 3Ed derived 3rd party games. No other D20 game from WotC. And nothing before the advent of 3Ed in his gaming career, either.

When we (rarely) venture out into non-D&D territory for RPG fun, he isn't playing. (He's not the only one, but he's the major one.) And this was a serious problem for me because I was experiencing a bit of writers block vis a vis FRPG plots to DM.

At one point, that was a major consideration for me, and I scrapped plans to run Urban Arcana and Mutants & Masterminds games (among others) simply because he wasn't on board.

Now, I don't care. If I can find players for my Urban Arcana game, I'll run it and hang out with him on other occasions. I refuse to be held hostage by his tastes in gaming.

However, I'm not going to force him to change his opinions. If I wind up running a game in which he refuses to participate- so be it. I'll respect his decision and let him do something else with his time.

 

[Falling Icicle]

As one of the DMs, I got one fence sitter off the fence by flat out saying that my game was converting over and so would he if he wanted to play.

Sounds to me like you are the one being irrational and inconsiderate. You're giving your players an ultimatum - play 4e, or else. Can you really be surprised when at least one of them lashes back at you by giving you an ultimatum of his own? Even if you do manage to force him to back down and accept the new edition, his ability to enjoy it will be diminished due to your strong-arm tactics. Nobody likes to be forced into doing something, especially not by a friend.

Perhaps a little ham-handed but I really have no interest to DM for 3.5 ever again, and he is one of my best friends so he knew I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. Besides after reading the previews from WotC and playing in the SW Saga game, he too has been converted and joined the 4e bandwagon and now is really liking what he sees.

And what if he hadn't liked what he had seen, would you still insist that he convert to the new edition? Of course you would, you had already told them that they're playing 4e, no matter what. Stop and think for a moment about the position you're putting your friends in and how you would feel if it was done to you.

What would you do?

Back off and lighten up. It's just a game. Stop badgering and strong-arming your friends. Let them come around to the new edition on their own.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

As opinionated as people are here, I highly doubt many people are going to "suffer" when playing 4e. Do people really vehemently despise their time playing any RPG (with a few notable exceptions)? If I'm not running the game, I'm willing to play almost anything (again, notable exceptions). I can understand someone not wanting to run 4e or run 3e or run GURPs or whatever. But, not wanting to play them? It just doesn't seem that big of a deal.

Seriously.

Player 1: "Hey, how about we play Monopoly?"
Player 2: "You...monster! You bastard! How could you?! Tonight is scrabble night! Does that mean nothing to you?! What about my feelings? You're out of the will, buster!"
Player 1: "You can be the scotty dog."

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I recognize all the words, but I can't seem to grasp the sentence. Like fog, it keeps slipping away.

Mutalization is a word?