D&D General Is power creep bad?

[Reynard]

So they can leave the table for one that doesn't use level drain?

Hopefully this is a thing that comes up in Session 0, but players absolutely should play at tables that match their preferences. GMs too.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'd much rather place my trust in my DM and have it occasionally blow up in my face then play a straight-jacketed game where all the terrible mechanical consequences are softened.

In that case why do you play D&D when you have multiple large 300 page rulebooks as part of the core - and when hit points are and have always been the antithesis of "terrible mechanical consequences"?

One of the reasons I play other games than D&D is just how soft mechanical consequences are in D&D in any edition. Even level drain is pretty trivial by the standards of e.g. losing a hand. And another reason is because the rules are cleaner and lighter in games other than D&D and don't have their advancement on rails. The straight-jacketed game with the terrible mechanical consequences being softened is D&D.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In that case why do you play D&D when you have multiple large 300 page rulebooks as part of the core - and when hit points are and have always been the antithesis of "terrible mechanical consequences"?

One of the reasons I play other games than D&D is just how soft mechanical consequences are in D&D in any edition. Even level drain is pretty trivial by the standards of e.g. losing a hand. And another reason is because the rules are cleaner and lighter in games other than D&D and don't have their advancement on rails. The straight-jacketed game with the terrible mechanical consequences being softened is D&D.

First, I don't want a lighter game. Never have. Second, I make change to my game to increase mechanical consequences. Third, my players, particularly my wife, are D&D folks. Its hard enough getting my house rules through, let alone another game.

 

[Lanefan]

They might not die more, but do they get level drained more? Also, it's great that you're conscientious with how often you use level draining monsters, but you can run into them at levels where Restoration isn't an option as well.

And that still doesn't answer my essential question- what does permanent level drain do that makes it a worthwhile mechanic?

From a strictly DM-side game-mechanics point of view, it serves to slow advancement a bit; which is always a quiet goal of mine as IME what kills any long campaign is achieving levels the game doesn't handle well.

And Restoration is available at any level provided you're willing and able to pay an NPC to cast it. (I did relax Restoration a bit in that if you lose multiple levels in one go a single casting will get them all back)

How does it make the game more fun? In AD&D we already have poison, disease, polymorph, curses, and magical effects and monsters that destroy your stuff, from the lowly rust monster all the way to Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

How does taking away experience points fit in here? A previous poster said it's terrifying, but so is a Beholder disintegrating you.

Disintegration usually means your character is done, unless you've access to Wish. Level drain (unless you lose them all!) is merely a setback, albeit a big one; and the PC remains available for further play. In that way, I posit a Beholder is potentially less fun than a Wraith.

 

[Lanefan]

They might not die more, but do they get level drained more?

Sorry, missed this question. Answer: I don't think so but I'm not sure. I have the data, but crunching it might take a while.

 

[James Gasik]

That is always a problem, when your preferences don't line up with those of your play group. I'm sure you compromise as best you can, Micah Sweet, but I've been there myself, so my condolences.

Maybe compromise? Switch between 5e one week and DCC the next? Or how about some good old AD&D (it'd be nice to hear about White Plume Mountain run in a version of D&D that supports it).

 

[James Gasik]

Sorry, missed this question. Answer: I don't think so but I'm not sure. I have the data, but crunching it might take a while.

My history with level draining usually comes down to one of two scenarios. 1, it's the fools in melee who get it. 2, it's the fools who fall for a pretty succubus or get singled out by a vampire who get it.

EDIT: I should explain the vampire thing. I'm talking about Castle Ravenloft Strahd levels of asshattery, like turning into a bat and descending on an offending character amidst of a swarm of bats you have summoned, and snacking on 2 levels a turn while your target tries in vain to hit the one vampire out of 50 that's actually a spellcasting genius elder vampire.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That is always a problem, when your preferences don't line up with those of your play group. I'm sure you compromise as best you can, Micah Sweet, but I've been there myself, so my condolences.

Maybe compromise? Switch between 5e one week and DCC the next? Or how about some good old AD&D (it'd be nice to hear about White Plume Mountain run in a version of D&D that supports it).

My version of 5e (which is mostly Level Up with a bunch of houseruled stuff) works just fine actually. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[James Gasik]

My version of 5e (which is mostly Level Up with a bunch of houseruled stuff) works just fine actually. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I really need to look at Level Up more closely...

 

[Lanefan]

Handcuff? Really?
I don't. But doing things "for my own good," especially if done in secret and covering it up? Or "reserving the right" to use tools like ear seekers etc. (you know, monsters that actually exist and which were used, sometimes even by their original creator, specifically for the purpose of screwing over players)? That's going to create distrust.

A DM using ear seekers and the like shouldn't breed distrust toward that DM. In fact, it tells me you can trust that DM to run a hard-ass setting and in order to survive it you'd better be on your game.

It also tells me not to trust anything in the setting, and to check everything twice. It's a slow and patient style of play that doesn't suit some these days, but there it is; and if that's what the DM gives you and you don't check everything twice, on (or off!) your head be it.