Flamestrike
Legend
Funny you mention warlock. In every thread I watch as it gets brought up as just as good as a full caster.
I can literally find you a 25 links to threads in this forum alone where the opposite is argued.
Funny you mention warlock. In every thread I watch as it gets brought up as just as good as a full caster.
I think the problem is a lot of fans play situations where forcing 6-8 encounters feels clunky. And that what works outside the dungeons might not work within the dungeon. And vice versa.Use a rest variant.
5E is balanced around the 6-8 encounter, 2 short rest AD. If you stray from this baseline, and only ever have single encounter 5 minute work day AD's, and experience balance issues (namely from Long rest classes like the Wizard pwning Short rest classes like the Fighter, Warlock and Monk), that's not a feature of the Wizard class itself, it's down the DM straying from the baseline adventuring day guidelines.
So my point stands. The cause of the phenomena (and I agree it exists at some tables) is down to choices made by the DM and/or the group not sticking to the AD guidelines.
Okay then I’m out I was considering saying I would play but that kind of DM heavy handedness isn’t for me.
I've yet to see any statistical evidence from the 'Wizards are God' camp either. In the 8 years of these threads being posted.
Okay then I’m out I was considering saying I would play but that kind of DM heavy handedness isn’t for me.
Yes. So... you should treat their experience with as much respect as you treat your own then, I think.
That works great if you roll for stats, but rolling for stats is only fun if you can build your character in 5 minutes when they inevitably died when the d20 forsakes you.Debates like this are why I always liked the variable XP tables of older editions as a balancing factor as well as ability score requirements. You have to meet certain criteria to be an Army Ranger, Navy Seal, get a doctorate etc so the classes like Ranger, Paladin etc had more stringent requirements to become one and to advance or even retain the abilities. You no longer met those criteria you were no longer of that rank until you could be reinstated. I disagree with the gender limits etc in 1e but some of that with regard to choosing class kept those classes rare even amongst players and also made high powered wizards mean something even to players for example. DCC has a breakdown of what the characters mean to the world in one chapter that also help drive it home too without variable XP charts.
Except that’s not quite what I wanted out of this thread.8 years of this same thread popping up 3 times a week in various iterations, and still nobody has been able to post any actual evidence that wizards (or indeed any casters) are actually unbalanced compared to other classes.
If they're so unpopular, that seems like a major flaw in the system to me...The DMG Guidelines for adventure are very unpopular BUT the only way to balance a full caster the way D&D fans want casters.
“Of course, the Wizard is the most powerful class! He’s the WIZARD! It makes total sense! Hence why WOTC made it the most powerful class. You can totally tell just from the fluff and the mechanics and the Fighter is the worst class. The game is way more fun when there’s a stronger class.”
And I wanted to know who else shared his opinion, who had the same reading of the PHB.
I'd rather they design the game to better reflect how people actually play rather than every encounter day being like a month of sessions to get through.
Because like I said...you'd have to nerf full casters or make them run similar to martials and half casters.I'd rather they design the game to better reflect how people actually play rather than every encounter day being like a month of sessions to get through.
Because like I said...you'd have to nerf full casters or make them run similar to martials and half casters.
And I do.
Man is inexperienced DMs with 20+ years of DMing.That's the reason. The 5MWD, and inexperienced DMs. It's not an inherent feature of the Wizard class.
Wait you think wizard is the weakest class!?!?!?I dont share his opinion at all. I argue the exact opposite.
To me the default shoulda been casters having half the amount of slots and either...I keep working on (and then forgetting about) a variant game of 5E that does just that.
Bascially turns every spell into a ToB Manouver and ports the actual manouvers from ToB to 5E and then everyone is 'encounter neutral' when it comes to powers.
Mirror image turns into a Stance. Shield is a counter. And so forth.
Wait you think wizard is the weakest class!?!?!?
Exactly, you have experience, and plenty of it from the look of it.YeaAgain, I run high level games, and I know the shennanigans. Im more than happy to literally run a game with a Wizard and 3-4 other PC's at literally any level and prove the 'Wizards are inherently unbalanced' line to be be a total lie.
I played a level 5-6 Shepperd Druid and grew bored because of how easy it got after a while... I think it's just a problem with the expected encounter structure and the nature of spell casters in DnD.I'd bet London to a Brick that those of you with 'Wizards are God' experiences at your tables (and I agree that there are a few of you out there, this thread pops up in one form or another every day or two) have one of the following things messing up your results (or both of them):
1) DM inexperienced with high level play
2) Not cleaving to the 6-8 encounter/ 2 -3 short rest Adventuring day median.
That's the cause of the problem. It's not an inherent feature of the Wizard.
Yeah, balance is more of a goal than a destination you can reach with an RPG. It's kind of a window and 5e tried its best to reduce it. I think it apparently worked quite well for others, but since I'm big into game design I can see the cracks on the edges and just can't ignore them. Mind you I still want to play, but the social and creative aspect do a LOT of the lifting that the mechanics fail to do...Not accidental… it’s incidental.
Any suitably complex system will have potential imbalances. A dozen+ classes, subclasses, races, spells, magic items and feats. Not to mention the imbalance a Dungeon Master provides, different genres, low magic, monty haul, gritty fantasy, high fantasy, Ravnica, Strixhaven, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft. Give me a break. It was never going to be perfectly balanced, there are too many moving parts.
That’s why we have DMs… because it’s not Cluedo or Game of Life. The DM curates the fun, because the rules alone can’t do it.
Perfect balance in quality RPG’s if a myth. Nonetheless, 5e gets as close as I have seen it.
I like Warlock, they got neat flavour, a fun mix-and-match subclass system, they get cool passives, a reliable magical damage dealing move they can spam to feel magical, and a few cool blow out they can bring out every once in a while. More classes should be built like the Warlock.Funny you mention warlock. In every thread I watch as it gets brought up as just as good as a full caster.
Then any perceived imbalance would be the result of different playing style and human error clashing with the intended design of the game rather than baked in, meaning you should take the 'accidental' option in the poll.I dont share his opinion at all. I argue the exact opposite.
It's Spellcasting.Im more than happy to give up my time, and (again) show that the imbalance that people are seeing between the classes, is not down to some inherent feature of the Wizard,
I blame the rest structure.The cause of the problem lies elsewhere.