D&D 5E Is the sleep spell d&d 5e too powerful

[Nebulous]

I'm curious to see how that works in play. My suspicion (assuming any casters pick the spells knowing the modification) is that it will be fine but overly weak. Interesting to find out.

I think the spell will only be about 50% as effective as originally intended.

 

[Dausuul]

Unfortunately all aspects of the spell need to be looked at.

Then why are you only looking at one?

 

[Tony Vargas]

So let me make this clear - when your same wizard casts Sleep on a bunch of kobolds, they all get a save to resist? For what it is worth, maybe there should be a higher level Greater Sleep spell...

Sorry to be that back-in-my-day guy, but, in a way, there was. Death Spell was a 6th level spell in 1e that worked the same way as sleep: affected a random number of creatures, based on their HD, with a hard limit on the highest HD affected (8 IIRC, it's been, y'know, decades). I saw that similarity back in the day and ran with it, with a whole series of 2-5th level spells that filled in a progression between the two.

 

[Jasondd]

I think the spell will only be about 50% as effective as originally intended.

Yes, the goal is.to make it less powerful but as I stated in another comment, the saving throw could be made against the spell casting ability of the wizard. The more powerful the wizard, the harder to resist!

 

[Jasondd]

Sorry to be that back-in-my-day guy, but, in a way, there was. Death Spell was a 6th level spell in 1e that worked the same way as sleep: affected a random number of creatures, based on their HD, with a hard limit on the highest HD affected (8 IIRC, it's been, y'know, decades). I saw that similarity back in the day and ran with it, with a whole series of 2-5th level spells that filled in a progression between the two.

I hear you but it was a 6th level spell not 1st level

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Another crude way to look at this:
Individually, those members of the party in the OP are each roughly equivalent to CR 1/4 NPCs, plus or minus. It's not surprising or overpowered that sleep would take out a few fractional CR foes, so why should it be surprising or overpowered to take down a few fractional CR friends?

 

[Nebulous]

Sorry to be that back-in-my-day guy, but, in a way, there was. Death Spell was a 6th level spell in 1e that worked the same way as sleep: affected a random number of creatures, based on their HD, with a hard limit on the highest HD affected (8 IIRC, it's been, y'know, decades). I saw that similarity back in the day and ran with it, with a whole series of 2-5th level spells that filled in a progression between the two.

Cool. They removed that from all other editions then? It sounds vaguely familiar.

 

[Mort]

Yes, the goal is.to make it less powerful but as I stated in another comment, the saving throw could be made against the spell casting ability of the wizard. The more powerful the wizard, the harder to resist!

Don't saves already take that into account? Or are you talking about adding some other factor? Because, if so, I think players will find that way too fiddly!

 

[Nebulous]

Yes, the goal is.to make it less powerful but as I stated in another comment, the saving throw could be made against the spell casting ability of the wizard. The more powerful the wizard, the harder to resist!

The problem, as others have stated, is that a wizard powerful enough to have a high resist DC wouldn't be wasting his time on a 1st level spell with a low hit point threshold and chance to completely resist it. But yes, try it out in play, that's the best way to see how it unfolds.

 

[Jasondd]

Another crude way to look at this:
Individually, those members of the party in the OP are each roughly equivalent to CR 1/4 NPCs, plus or minus. It's not surprising or overpowered that sleep would take out a few fractional CR foes, so why should it be surprising or overpowered to take down a few fractional CR friends?

I think that 1st level is equivalent to CR 1