Is the Sorceror as bad as I think?

[Spatzimaus]

And the sorcerer whined and cried because his tactic was screwed by the "cruel" DM.

Okay, so the guy was an idiot. It's not so much a failing of the class, it's a problem with a personality type. I've seen blaster Wizards who always go into combat polymorphed into something, with the same five buffs on them, and so on. If you always use the same strategy, the enemies WILL learn, or you'll finally come up against someone who has dealt with that strategy before.
And that's where the Sorcerer shines. If a Wizard is dispelled, what are the chances he has second copies memorized? How many Hastes will he go through before running out? The Sorcerer, on the other hand, just casts a replacement.

The main thing you have to remember with a Sorcerer is, you need to CAREFULLY pick out what spells you're going to learn well in advance. If the Wizard or Cleric is going to be memorizing the spell anyway, reconsider learning it. If it doesn't scale well, or if it's only useful in a couple specific situations, forget it. That's what scrolls and wands are for.
Picking a few multi-use spells goes a long way. I rarely see Wizards using Dispel Magic as a counterspell, because they want to save it for the overbuffed enemy. A Sorcerer, on the other hand, can counterspell very effectively (especially if he takes a couple appropriate Feats).
The Shadow magic spells are great. Take Spell Focus (Illusion), and the drop in effectiveness is minimal for the higher ones.
Alter Self and/or Polymorph Self can give you all the utility you need; wings, gills, extra arms, whatever.
Fabricate is my personal favorite, as long as you have a DM who lets you use the "raw material" part creatively. No turning the enemy into a pretzel, and we ruled no attended items, but turning his door into a commemorative statue?

Anyway, if you pick a few of these sort of spells, the drop in spell knowledge is really small, and the increase in on-the-spot flexibility is huge.

 

[Darklone]

Okay, so the guy was an idiot. ....
And that's where the Sorcerer shines. If a Wizard is dispelled, what are the chances he has second copies memorized? How many Hastes will he go through before running out? The Sorcerer, on the other hand, just casts a replacement.

In my experience, it's the other way round. The sorcerer may try to cast again... but if his spells are useless in the first place, what does he do? The wizard might still retreat and try different tactics.

 

[andargor]

Both of us are useful to the party and our opposing styles are well-represented by our respective classes. Overall, neither of us feels we have a signifigant advantage over the other.

What that says to me is that both classes are well-balanced against each other.

I agree with this. The party's sorcerer and my wizard don't really compete. The character's personalities are very different (he's a flamboyant, arrogant SOB, and mine is a shy, nerdy type), hence he's the offensive type and I'm the "utilitarian", with some offensive/defensive capability. We let the cleric do the real defensive stuff.

Andargor

 

[Bauglir]

In my experience, it's the other way round. The sorcerer may try to cast again... but if his spells are useless in the first place, what does he do? The wizard might still retreat and try different tactics.

It's a poorly designed sorcerer that can't get some use out of his spell list in just about any situation.

 

[Tzarevitch]

I allow arcane casters in my game to use the Master Wand feat from the Epic Level Handbook. As far as I am concerned, Psions cas do it with a regular feat, I see no reason why arcane casters can't too. The ability is of some use to a wizard but it is invaluable to sorcerers.

I also allow sorcerers to Quicken spell. The logic behind why it is prohibited makes no sense to me (especially when a sorcerer can Twin a spell). These two measures have gone a long way to address the balance of power problems that I have seen between sorcerers and wozards in my game.

Tzarevitch

 

[Pax]

In my experience, it's the other way round. The sorcerer may try to cast again... but if his spells are useless in the first place, what does he do? The wizard might still retreat and try different tactics.

Captured spellbooks and research aside, at just about any level up to 20th, a sorceror will know about the same total number of spells as a wizard will.

So, if the sorceror finds that ALL of his spells are useless, odds are, a wizard would too. Just as often.

With that said, unlike wizards, sorcerors tend to select spells based on multi-purpose usage. The best example I can remember from the core rules would be Glitterdust; at low levels, being able to blind your opponents is grand. At high levels, evenwhen the DC for the blinding is too low to be of anything but an occasional "bonus" effect ... the outlining of invisible targets for the melee and ranged figters to see (and, one hopes, kill) is still invaluable.

And that is the key to an efective sorceror. Youneed one, maybe two "blaster" type spells per level, and the rest ... should be utility spells. Preferably ALL of them, blaster and utility alike, should have multiple uses or applications.

Versatility of application within each single spell is what keeps a sorceror alive and fun to play.

Now yes, I've been in situations where my "best" spell was useless -- at 5th level, when my 2d-level repertoire consisted of Glitterdust and Melf's Acid Arrow ... and we were facing a black dragon.

Oh well, I pumped magic missiles, glitterdusts, and rays of frost into it. One spell down wasn't a killer, and it helped show everyone that my sorceror was NOT the be-all, end-all "blaster mage". Meanwhile, I took a back seat against that one foe; no biggie, noone can (nor should they) be in center spotlight for EVERY encounter.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I agree that sorc's can be dull as players if not played well. On the other hand they make GREAT foes for the party.

They get lots of blasting power and no super valuable spellbook laying around for the party to find afterward.

Also a sorc with invisibility as one of his 2nd level spells is very survivable and can make for a great short term returning villian.

My personal favorite is kobold sorc's who eventually gain levels in Dragon Disciple. The increase to medium size is often ignored by the party at first (Its a big kobold so what. WHAT!! He breathed WHAT on us?!?)

 

[Storm Raven]

Captured spellbooks and research aside, at just about any level up to 20th, a sorceror will know about the same total number of spells as a wizard will.

Umm, huh? Any wizard who does not have 10-15 spells in his spellbook for each level of spell he can cast by the time he is 9th-10th level or so is doing something wrong. The only point at which most sorcerers are comparable in spells known is usually very early in their career.

 

[Pax]

mm, huh? Any wizard who does not have 10-15 spells in his spellbook for each level of spell he can cast by the time he is 9th-10th level or so is doing something wrong. The only point at which most sorcerers are comparable in spells known is usually very early in their career.

Let's assume an 18 starting intelligence of 18, and core rules only.

At 10th level, the wizard will have:
Level 1:
7 first level spells (3+Int Modifier)
Level 2:
+2 1st level spells
Level 3:
+2 2d level spells
Level 4:
+2 2d level spells
Level 5:
+2 3d level spells
Level 6:
+2 3d level spells
Level 7:
+2 4d level spells
Level 8:
+2 4d level spells
Level 9:
+2 5d level spells
Level 10:
+2 5d level spells

Thus, the wizard knows:

[color=white]
Level    Number
  1            9
  2            4
  3            4
  4            4
  5            4
[/color]

Now, IDHMBWM but ... the Sorceror wont know fewer TOTAL spells thanthat, by much.'

For your assertation to be correct, and for the Wizard to have "10-15" ... let's call it 12, on average ... he'd need +3 1st level, and +8 of eachlevel after that.

Purely in terms of treasure value ... that's a LOT of gold "spent" on those spells. If you and I were to make 10th level characters... you'd have to sink a goodly amount of money into those spells.

Just the scrolls/spellbooks alone would be worth 9,475gp. Then, eithr lot of scribing, or, 9,000gp for a BBB and SOME scribing, or, 18,000gp for TWO BBB's.

We're looking at almost 30,000gp. Money the Sorceror can invest elsewhere.

And again, I did specify "other than researched spells and captured spellbooks" ... so my statement is STILL absolutely factually correct.

 

[Darklone]

Yeah well, I always like to give the party's wiz the opportunity to burn half of the groups treasures for new spells in his book