D&D 5E Is this an abuse of the Advantage/Disadvantage system?

[jrowland]

Abusing the system? No.

However, as others have pointed out, it's better to be consistent than right. Go ahead and be generous with ADV (and DIS on enemies) if you feel the game is better for it and the players are ok with it. I would wager that any disatisfaction/sense-of-abuse would/will come by changing the generousity in a critical moment.

I find that instead of being over-generous with ADV/DIS, its better to have enemies flee, make poor tactical choices, surrender, etc.

 

[the Jester]

I'm talking about myself and choices I have made.

We all have had those days when we roll and cannot seem to roll anything over a 3...days where it just goes to heck in a handbasket.

Then, to make it worse, all the things we fight don't seem to be able to miss us, so they are all rolling over 16s constantly.

As the DM, I've started finding really weak excuses to grant advantage to players who are having these types of days.

I find it really helps them get out of the low rolling slumps, and actually seems to improve their day.

If it's really bad, I'll find any reason to give the enemies they face disadvantage.


However, this is not really using the system as described in the book.

Would you categorize this as abusing the system, or trying to make the game more fun to the players?

Both. You're trying to make the game more fun for the players by abusing the system.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing if your players are cool with it, but personally, I'd be disgruntled, disappointed, and disheartened. Whenever the DM 'cheats' in favor of the pcs, or even worse, for a specific pc (or npc, for that matter), it really undermines the integrity of the game for me.

 

[Wuzzard]

Wow. I would never ever want to DM for players that were so focused on the mechanics, and correctness, and being ruled by the dice and were so bereft of compassion for another human being that they'd object to me momentarily aiding a player that is down on his luck to the point of not having fun.

 

[abirdcall]

It's not winning or losing, it's the journey that is important.

I would have a talk with the group about how luck impacts their fun. They may be playing the wrong game. For example, in the group I play with it's great fun to have a character die a horrible death when they get unlucky. That is why adventuring is dangerous.

As to your question about abuse, what you are doing is fudging. My rule with fudging is that if you are going to do it you shouldn't be rolling in the first place.

Wow. I would never ever want to DM for players that were so focused on the mechanics, and correctness, and being ruled by the dice and were so bereft of compassion for another human being that they'd object to me momentarily aiding a player that is down on his luck to the point of not having fun.

And I wouldn't want to play with someone who didn't have fun because they rolled poorly.

To each their own.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

It's only abuse if you're inconsistent to the point that the players notice and it spoils their fun.

 

[Xvartslayer]

Could you provide some examples? As previous people have posted, reasons like "you are standing on the table" might create an unfortunate precedent.

On the other hand, I often add situational conditions to, I hope, increase the player's fun.

 

[Lehrbuch]

As the DM, I've started finding really weak excuses to grant advantage to players who are having these types of days.

I find it really helps them get out of the low rolling slumps, and actually seems to improve their day.

Doing stuff like this seems pretty lame from the point of view of the players, in my experience. Giving out advantage and disadvantage to simply counteract a perception of bad luck ends up undermining the efforts of the other players to use in-play tactics etc that will earn them advantage (or their opponents disadvantage).

If you want to give a player a bit of a bonus, just be generous in awarding Inspiration (to all the players). The players can then choose to spend Inspiration to gain advantage.

Also, try to structure your adventures so that players fail forwards. That is, the adventure should be about the PCs and the consequences of their successes and failures. So, even if one or more players are having bad luck, their failures should still have interesting consequences that drive the story forward (even if it is in a totally different direction to that the PCs wanted). If you allow setbacks and catastrophes to occur, the story of how the PCs recover will be a lot richer.

 

[Reflected_Shadows]

I am careful about structure and detail of designing scenes instead of encounters.

So if a foe is getting "great dice" then it means "that isn't just a goon, that is Super Goon the Ultraminion!" and now he earns a name. He will try to fulfill his goal in the scene and escape with his life, just like everyone else. Maybe a character/npc/monster is crestfallen, ill, bad day, bad karma, whatever. I like to prod the player - "Why is your character getting these bad rolls? Is this just bad fortune, or an off day, or perhaps fate seeks to bring you down?" - I like to let the player have some fun with the fact that the dice are "being odd".

Reminds me of Axis and Allies, I had a friend that every time we played, he would make a big attack and roll 5's and I would roll all 1-2's and he would be so mad.

There are other ways to lighten things up than misusing the advantage/disadvantage system. I would also be careful in your wording, as abuse and misuse are very different on terms of foul play and malign nature. I would say you are misusing the system for a good motive, but you are still having a negative impact. If a monster gets a few big shots off, be ruthless, have it sneer and spit or do something else to signify that "this ain't no ordinary zombie by the lake in a hokey mask". Or if the player easily defeats an enemy, let the enemy be not only defeated, but defeated utterly and spectacularly - that will maximize the fun, and create an "oomph!" moment which gives you the time to make a brief plot adjustment.

"My intended miniboss was killed in advance. Got it. Enemy scout gives the actual boss a message, who commissions someone else to "do it instead". The PC's should maybe be given 1-2 tales of the easily defeated character's glory - "That wizard you just beat once killed a storm giant that attacked this city..." or "I feel bad for the knight you beat. After the plague took his wife and sons, he became a drunk and hasn't been the same. Gods have mercy." This just adds a layer. I like to find ways to add layers all over the place. Seeds now which might or might not matter later.

If an NPC accidentally "steals the show" with a good performance, that is usually how NPC's earn a name and go from "that knight you hired" to "Bryant of the Red Apples".

 

[Reflected_Shadows]

I make a second post because I want to not attach the lightheartedness to the more serious tone of my prior one.

I think it is okay, during a moment of lopsided dice to drop in a twist that makes sense. Think about professional wrestling. Now, a wrestler hits a big move! He is moving toward his downed opponent. Some fan throws out a banana peel and the wrestler slips and falls. The opponent gets up, hits his finisher real quick and wins. In this scenario, the "advantage/disadvantage" is the banana peel and the rowdy fan who threw it. Think of this as "The Twist."

The banana peel is kinda cheesy and creates a result that is not legitimate. So, don't be that rowdy fan who throws a banana peel into the ring during the match just because the wrestler you like is about to lose. On the next enemy round, instead of risking killing the PC's with another round of critical successes, you can have the foes demand terms. You can also design encounters and scenes which involve the idea that "death is not the only defeat" where every situation is win or die. Give different enemies a reason for being there, something they want to get done, and give every side 1-2 obstacles. Then, when one side has a near lopsided victory, they can seek to achieve their goal. I had a recent chase scene where the chased enemy nailed a critical hit and downed a PC who blinked in front of him. Instead of using a coup de grace, the enemy continued toward his escape.

 

[GreyLord]

Could you provide some examples? As previous people have posted, reasons like "you are standing on the table" might create an unfortunate precedent.

On the other hand, I often add situational conditions to, I hope, increase the player's fun.

Examples if a Player is doing very badly on their rolls, I start looking for any excuses...as examples...

The player has been missing most of the time while the enemies have not. I play that Orcs and such have a harder time in light than darkness. In this instance with those enemies, if it is outside on at night, and we haven't been keeping track of time, perhaps the clouds part and an extremely brilliant moon shines on the enemies granting the party advantage in general.

Or, perhaps the party now is equal or outnumbers the enemy and the player's foe gets a little intimidated by this.

Or, the other party members are doing decently, and the enemy starts getting more worried about them rather than the poorly rolling player and gets distracted and more concerned about maybe confronting them rather than the guy who is constantly missing. (which would be told in game with furtive glances at the other members, worry on the face, and looking longingly and worriedly at how well the others may be doing).

Or it could be that the enemy gets too overconfident...swaggering and bragging about how easy they are going to do this, and in their gusto, get very careless.

Things that are roleplayed how the enemy reacts, but overall in general affects their combat effectiveness.