Is this broken?

[jasin]

Once? He's pretty up front that if I allow it, he intends to do it hundreds of times in succession so that money is basically irrelevant for him and he can have any item that exists.

He has even described how, if I enact a "market glut" type of situation, he will enact a teleportation system where he travels from city to city until he has saturated every market on the planet.

So, to sum up: if you allow this obviously suspect strategy (if it weren't suspect there wouldn't be a thread entitled "Is this broken?" about it), your player will willfully unbalance the game with it, and if you try to retain balance through semi-plausible in-game means, he will do his best to thwart your attempts?

Why would you pander to such an obviously hostile player?

 

[Jhaelen]

Abusing Fabricate et.al. is really an old hat issue.

IMG there's a simple agreement regarding such matters: Don't f*** with the DM and the DM won't f*** with you. Solves all matters of cheese instantly.

 

[green slime]

So, to sum up: if you allow this obviously suspect strategy (if it weren't suspect there wouldn't be a thread entitled "Is this broken?" about it), your player will willfully unbalance the game with it, and if you try to retain balance through semi-plausible in-game means, he will do his best to thwart your attempts?

Why would you pander to such an obviously hostile player?

I would love to have such an engaged player at my table. It would be interesting to challenged intellectually, at least for a while. How many players just accept oddities and keep chasing Orc-Pie? Its only when you have to stop and think about things like this that the world truly progresses, develops and grows. Done well, it keeps even the other players on their toes.

Specifically, a RBDM, could set about a tulipomania event for the city / region / state / world in question...

 

[concerro]

By interfering with the Supply and Demand of any product the player is messing with someone's money. Playing with other people's money is one of the surest ways to turn up missing. I would inform him of this, and if he chooses to go ahead with it then so be it.

 

[concerro]

When there is to much products the prices fall and the market collapse.....
Causing the ruin of merchant guilds is never a good option if you want to sleep quietly.

I have been ninja'd

 

[kitsune9]

From one of my players:


The player wants to verify that he can embark upon this when he gains the Fabricate spell at 9th level. If you're the DM, how do you respond to this player?

Who's going to buy 5,000 alchemist's fires? Sure if the PC wants to create it, go for it, but don't expect market demand for 5,000 of these to soak it up. The DM can rule that if the PC wants to dump it all at once, he'll get half price for maybe 1,000, then it goes down to 5 gp for the next 2,500, and then down to 1 gp for everything left.

Or you could roleplay this out where the PC is trying to sell this stuff and the local Alchemist Guild gets wind of it and will do everything they can to shut the PC down or maybe they'll just demand their guild fees.

 

[jasin]

I would love to have such an engaged player at my table. It would be interesting to challenged intellectually, at least for a while. How many players just accept oddities and keep chasing Orc-Pie? Its only when you have to stop and think about things like this that the world truly progresses, develops and grows. Done well, it keeps even the other players on their toes.

Tastes differ and all, but I wouldn't consider the scheme in the original post done well. I would consider it poor form, abusing the letter of the rules for a secondary activity (D&D is about killing monsters and taking their stuff, not trade), obviously leading to a reduction of fun for everyone except the player executing it. In spirit, I don't find it very different from the proverbial bag of rats.

Specifically, a RBDM, could set about a tulipomania event for the city / region / state / world in question...

The player already warned the OP that he'll just teleport further and further afield obviate any market reaction (and a wizard with teleport and fabricate also has access to plane shift).

Ultimately, I wonder what the player's motivation is here. Have his character accumulate an practically infinite amount of money? To what end? Is he then going to fight his enemies? Most PC in D&D do that anyway, and seem to manage even with the limited funds suggested in the DMG. Is he going to retire and enjoy the fruits of his labor (or lack thereof)? Valid, but it doesn't seem like something very exciting to play out. Or is the player just trying to prove he's smarter than the authors of the book and/or his DM?

 

[green slime]

The player already warned the OP that he'll just teleport further and further afield obviate any market reaction (and a wizard with teleport and fabricate also has access to plane shift).

Isn't that sort of what the banks said by hiding their bad loans in other "securities" and selling them offshore?

Exactly what did that manage to produce? Worldwide recession? Which so far has cost the taxpayers around the world a staggering 10 trillion USD?!?

Imagine the effect when, on a global scale 30,000 9th level+ wizards decide, they too, want in on this get rich scheme. The player's prognosis is similar to what the manufacturers of Video tapes in the early 80's were making: In order to meet them, the entire planet would've had to be covered in Beta tapes to a depth of approx 10 ft. Likewise, for telecoms prior to the dotcom bubble.

teleport can only get you so far. It doesn't allow for interplanar travel. He can only get 900 miles per pop. Remember, he can only travel in one direction at a time, but news can travel in all directions. I would think, he might just find other wizards had already beaten him to his own game as he arrives with 50,000 vials of worthless alchemical fire. I'd love to see the look on the player's face... Somethings are truly priceless.

 

[jasin]

Isn't that sort of what the banks said by hiding their bad loans in other "securities" and selling them offshore?

Exactly what did that manage to produce? Worldwide recession? Which so far has cost the taxpayers around the world a staggering 10 trillion USD?!?

The very fact that something like this is brought up as an argument illustrates that there is something perverse in the whole scheme.

Imagine the effect when, on a global scale 30,000 9th level+ wizards decide, they too, want in on this get rich scheme. The player's prognosis is similar to what the manufacturers of Video tapes in the early 80's were making: In order to meet them, the entire planet would've had to be covered in Beta tapes to a depth of approx 10 ft. Likewise, for telecoms prior to the dotcom bubble.

teleport can only get you so far. It doesn't allow for interplanar travel. He can only get 900 miles per pop. Remember, he can only travel in one direction at a time, but news can travel in all directions. I would think, he might just find other wizards had already beaten him to his own game as he arrives with 50,000 vials of worthless alchemical fire. I'd love to see the look on the player's face... Somethings are truly priceless.

You don't have to convince me that the scheme can be foiled. The DM's arsenal, by definition, is always larger and better, and the fact that the player seems oblivious of this fact casts doubt on his insight, for all his cunning in abusing fabricate.

My point is that the DM shouldn't be forced to bother with foiling such schemes. Presumably, there are better things to do: dragons to slay, cults to root out, jungle temples to explore, and three or four other people at the table waiting to get to it.

Of course, if the whole group enjoys working out the consequence of the wizard's economic machinations, more power to them, but in my experience, other players are rarely as enamoured of such schemes as the player that comes up with them.

 

[green slime]

My point is that the DM shouldn't be forced to bother with foiling such schemes. Presumably, there are better things to do: dragons to slay, cults to root out, jungle temples to explore, and three or four other people at the table waiting to get to it.

IMX, the biggest problem is getting players to actually step up and be more proactive in the game. I'd prefer to have players say they want to take down the prince, destroy the slave trade, corner the market on alchemical fire / cold iron, create a trade empire, what ever, than just slounge around the local pub waiting for an adventure to fall on top of them.

Of course, if the whole group enjoys working out the consequence of the wizard's economic machinations, more power to them, but in my experience, other players are rarely as enamoured of such schemes as the player that comes up with them.

While that may be true, there are also humorous consequences along the way with any such madhatter schemes. Secondly, due to the tag-along-nature of the "adventure that fell on top of us", it is easy for some players to lose the thread completely:

Fighter looks up from slaughtering half a dozen orcs
"What are we doing here again?"
"Well, see, like, there was this cult and they kidnapped the barkeep's daughter...."
"Oh, right. Is that the one the rogue was doing?"
"No, it was the good-looking one."
"So, what are we getting out of this?" says the cleric, while plundering a corpse of all its worldly possessions.
"Ummm... I don't quite remember, there was mention of some gold 'tho."

So all told, I personally greatly prefer a proactive player with goals. Even if those goals are inane.