Is this combo as broken as I think it is?

[Gaiden]

If a high level Wizard wants to shape an area through which he cannot cast spells at his enemies, why exactly should I object to this?

Sure it is a cute trick with which to catch the unwary, but it is not ultimately very powerful.

I mean no offense Ridley's Cohort, but I think is a very naive statement. Cute trick!?!?!

Higher level game balance is completely dictated by equipment, nevermind the fact that A-MF hoses any pure spellcaster. Consider even just one minor aspect of higher level play: 3-D combat. Past level 10, aerial combat becomes routine. For most PCs the only way to gain aerial mobility is with spell access (barring the occasional gryphon or pegasus mount). A wizard with this ability could cast the following spells: fly, protection from arrows, shaped A-MF. This panel renders him virtually invulnerable to anything PC's can throw at him (literally and figuratively). If the PC's try and get within melee range their fly-type spells will fail and nothing they do at range will be very effective (barring the deepwood sniper of course). I of all people am hesitant to use this language, but a wizard using such a tactic would RAPE a party of PCs.

In contained quarters (like the underdark) this tactic is all the more devastating. Picture this: shaped A-MF with the wizard casting something like an earthquake (pick you pertinent spell - anything to cause a cave collapse) while the wizard has a contingent gaseous form or something similar.

The possibilities are endless.

 

[Gaiden]

This is not very scary at all.

Say you have a Wizard enclosed in an antimagic bubble. Yes, he can buff himself and prepare for later combat.

But, it is very difficult for him to be effective at all in combat before the Antimagic Field comes down.

He could take a weapon and go up to the enemy fighter and swing and have a good chance of hitting. But, weapon damage plus Str bonus would require a lot of rounds to take out an enemy similar level Fighter this way. If the Fighter is in the Antimagic Field and the Wizard is not, his spells and weapons would still be non-magical when they get to the Fighter.

Even a Polymorphed or Shapechanged Wizard reaching into the Antimagic Field around the Fighter would suddenly have his Troll or Dire Bear or Dragon claws suppressed and he would effectively be making an unarmed attack against the Fighter. Without Improved Unarmed Strike or Monk levels, the Fighter would get a free Attack of Opportunity and if he hits, the Wizards melee attack is nullified.

Plus, unlike a Wall of Force, nothing indicates that you can Teleport through an Antimagic Field. Hence, the enemies of the Wizard can pelt him with magical/aligned arrows (which get magical again once they get to his square) and he can hardly counter-attack or run away (he could conceivably Fly away, but his opponents should often be able to stay with him).


Such a Wizard would be well protected against spell attacks, but he would not be very scary until he dismisses the Antimagic Field.

The best such a Wizard could do to be offensive would be to fire missiles out of his antimagic bubble. An Arcane Archer, for example, with an antimagic bubble around her might conceivably be able to use some of her arrow spell-like or supernatural powers through the bubble.

But, this is hardly a great or scary tactic. It is a spell defensive tactic until the Wizard buffs up, but would be relatively ineffective against missile and melee attacks.

I'll run the wizard, you run the PC's.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'll run the wizard, you run the PC's.

Sure thing.

 

[KarinsDad]

A wizard with this ability could cast the following spells: fly, protection from arrows, shaped A-MF. This panel renders him virtually invulnerable to anything PC's can throw at him (literally and figuratively)

And the PC Cleric, Wizard or Sorcerer casts Greater Magic Weapon on 50 arrows and the PCs pelt him like crazy while he flies around not being able to attack back. Remember, once the arrows get into his square, their magic is no longer suppressed. Not as invulnerable as you claim.

How exactly is this a good plan for him?

In the meantime, the PC spell casters buff up the party, waiting for him to dismiss his spell.


A Fly spell with a Shaped Antimagic Field is a fine combo for getting away from most non-flying opponents, but outside of a defensive spell used to protect until the other buff spells are in place, Shaped Antimagic Field is extremely limiting to someone whose career is built on casting spells. Plus, once Timestop comes along, the Shaped Antimagic Field trick loses most of its appeal for buffing since Timestop is much faster.

 

[Endur]

Sophistication

I think you could come up with very sophisticated uses of shaped AMF that are much more powerful than anything has been mentioned so far.

For example, a shapted wall of stone/wall of iron that circles the target, and a shaped amf inside the wall. The target is a now a prisoner in an AMF.

Another option might be a defensive AMF where you have left an opening so that you can cast spells out, but people can only cast spells into the AMF if they are in your target window, from any other direction, you are defended.

 

[Elrik_DarkFury]

I would summon nasty things (inside the AF or outside depending on who i am).

I dont believe that this "combo" is broken ,althought a shapeable AF in the right hands can be very powerfull and able to turn the tide of most combats.

________________
The Wizard

 

[KarinsDad]

I think you could come up with very sophisticated uses of shaped AMF that are much more powerful than anything has been mentioned so far.

For example, a shapted wall of stone/wall of iron that circles the target, and a shaped amf inside the wall. The target is a now a prisoner in an AMF.

This would not work. Antimagic Field surrounds the caster and moves with him, it does not have range (beyond the 10 feet of its radius) and its radius is only 10 feet. Hence, you cannot cast it around a target.

Another option might be a defensive AMF where you have left an opening so that you can cast spells out, but people can only cast spells into the AMF if they are in your target window, from any other direction, you are defended.

Two possibilities here (depending on how you read the phrase "moves with you"):

1) The "hole" is stationary relative to the caster (i.e. it has the same "facing" as when originally cast), hence, if he can cast out, others can cast in the same hole (i.e. if he has line of effect out, others have line of effect in). Plus, others can avoid his spells by being on the other side.

2) The "hole" is non-stationary relative to the caster (i.e. it has the same "facing" relative to the caster, if he faces north, it faces north). This does not change anything. Others can cast into the line of effect if he can cast out of it.

So, this doesn't work that well either.

Sure, he could summon monsters out of "the hole", but that probably wouldn't buy him that much.


All in all, this combination is not worth that much other than a protection from other spells spell while the caster buffs.

 

[gabrion]

How did we come to the conclusion that arrows would be magical when they the wizard? I could see that being true for the archmage, but what about ESA? It seems like no magic would be able to hit this guy.

If you don't think it's effective try a wizard polymorphed into a firblog with tensor's transformation cast. You're looking at a huge attack and damage bonus, plus everyone he decides to attack is super vulnerable since none of their magic items work. Furthermore, such a wizard just needs to get DR/magic and it will be pretty hard to hurt him, since no weapons will be treated as magic as long as they are in melee with him. Heck, he should have an AC buffed into the 40s, so hitting him at all will be a long shot.

Really people, this is powerful and not just a tactic for defence. I will just reiterate though that clerics can cast AMF as well, and the combo is even more deadly when they get ahold of it.

 

[KarinsDad]

How did we come to the conclusion that arrows would be magical when they the wizard?

Because antimagic field only suppresses magic within it's area. If the wizard is not within the antimagic area, neither will the magic arrows when they hit him.

I could see that being true for the archmage, but what about ESA? It seems like no magic would be able to hit this guy.

If you don't think it's effective try a wizard polymorphed into a firblog with tensor's transformation cast. You're looking at a huge attack and damage bonus, plus everyone he decides to attack is super vulnerable since none of their magic items work. Furthermore, such a wizard just needs to get DR/magic and it will be pretty hard to hurt him, since no weapons will be treated as magic as long as they are in melee with him. Heck, he should have an AC buffed into the 40s, so hitting him at all will be a long shot.

Really people, this is powerful and not just a tactic for defence. I will just reiterate though that clerics can cast AMF as well, and the combo is even more deadly when they get ahold of it.

You seem to think that the PCs will be sitting around doing nothing instead of countering this threat.

Remember, if he has antimagic around him, he cannot attack into that antimagic area with his "firblog with tensor's transformation" since the parts of his body that attempt to attack get suppressed just like all other magic (and claw attacks become unarmed attacks which if he does not have Improved Unarmed Attack, the opponent gets an Attack of Opportunity to not only attempt to hit him, but can negate his attack as well).

Plus, anyone attacking him with a magic weapon attacks into his square(s), hence, anyone who attacks him has the magic of their weapon no longer suppressed.


And another thing, if the wizard is medium sized, no problem.

But, if he Shapechanges into a huge or larger creature, then there are "holes" in the antimagic field for others to attack through.

Check out page 307 and 308 of the DMG. The largest a Wizard can shapechange to is large, otherwise the antimagic field only protects him from two sides (or not at all for gargantuan or larger sizes).

Plus, if he shapechanges or polymorphs into a large creature, there are 4 corner squares where the enemy fighters can attack him and they are not in the antimagic field, hence, all of their magic still works.


This is mostly a defensive tactic.

 

[glass]

[lots of good points]

I don't always agree with KarinsDad, but in this case, I'd say he's spot on.


glass.