Is this combo as broken as I think it is?

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I think leaving a 'hole' out of the field is probably the best way to go... That way the mage can dump their spells out through it, while retaining the AMF defenses from all other vectors.

Wonder what the best way to 'plug' the hole is? Any 1 square or larger 1 way defenisve fields out there?


Another thought, AMF has a radius of 10'. If someone dumps an evocation with a radius of 20' just outside the field - say a fireball, what happens?

The effect will obviously be cancelled in the AMF, but will it pass through that to affect the holes in the field? IIRC, the field only supresses effects, but does not cancel them?

I'd be inclined to let the mage cook, just to teach them lessons about cheese?


Or perhaps give them a run in with a fallen Solar + AMF.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Plus, unlike a Wall of Force, nothing indicates that you can Teleport through an Antimagic Field. Hence, the enemies of the Wizard can pelt him with magical/aligned arrows (which get magical again once they get to his square) and he can hardly counter-attack or run away (he could conceivably Fly away, but his opponents should often be able to stay with him).

Not to dispute your other points, since I'm in agreement, but I do believe that an anti-magic field with a hole in it is no barrier to teleportation, if you accept the principle (not included in the SRD spell description) that teleporation involves hopping into another plane for a moment. Since the antimagic field doesn't mention that it extends into any other plane, you should be able to effectively leave the material plane, move around the antimagic zone, and then reappear, so long as you never actually enter the field. Since Teleport doesn't require line of effect, the antimagic field shouldn't block it.

 

[Gaiden]

I seem to be one of the few people in agreement with the original poster that this combination is uttelry broken.

Here are some examples why I think it is so broken:

Shaped AM-F, Polymorph (choose your melee combat machine), Haste, Fly, Tensor's Transformation, shield, armor, Protection from..., and any other buffs you care to have up + adamentium tripping reach weapon. You are not attacking with your natural form into the AM-F so you get all the benefits of your spells and your weapon retains the +2 to attack from its material. You obviously polymorphed into a big creature to gain the trip bonuses and with the crazy strength you are capable of should have no problem tripping opponents, especially when you are getting in melee range with them the AM-F covers them. If you are concerned about grappling, you can grease yourself, cast fire shield, blink, or anything else that hinders grappling. You trip with your first attack and then womp on them without any of their defensive magical equipment working and with a +4 for them being prone (if you are full attacking). Moreover, for them to exit the AM-F, they have to get up provoking an AoO (giving you another attack), and then would have to move and do nothing else for the round, provoking yet another AoO because of your reach weapon. Meanwhile, with fly, you could move up to them or charge and trip again. If they keep getting up and running away you still get AoO's every round, If they stay in the AM-F...well, g/l. If there are problems with the AoE of AM-F, just enlarge or widen it.

Terrain: Snow covered Mountains, AM-F + contingent gaseous form + shout + fly + wind wall. AM-F + windwall makes you immune to all opponents attacks (since normal PC's don't have wings and therefore can't get within melee range of you). You merely make a K(architecture/engineering) or K(nature) whatever your DM thinks appropriate and move to the weak point in the mountain - just shout away until you get the desired effect.

Terrain: any underground, + the immediate above spell combo. Fly above your opponents and start weaking the ceiling of the cave/tunnel until you get a cave collpase. You could just cast rock to mud (again limited wish I believe would get you this) or stone shape thin sheets through the rock to drop massive sized (non-magical rocks on your enemies).

Terrain: underwater. This would be really deadly. Polymorph into some aquatic creature with an incredibly fast movement rate, move next to your PC (again, most PC's don't naturally breathe underwater), and ready an action to move with him wherever he goes. Your movement speed is fast enough that you could just follow him until he suffocates. Alternatively, polymorph into some large creature and grapple your opponent, cast a quickened or still dispel magic after grappling and just sit there.

Having any sort of dangerous terrain is where this combo really gets deadly - you have the magic to support yourself in the terrain while you counter your opponent's ability to do the same.

I am sure other's can come up with even better tactics than I listed. The point is a shapeable AM-F is truly devastating. Even if you can't cast spells through it. I think there might even be a loophole for this though. As someone mentioned you could allow a window in the field. However, make the window small enough so that anyone who needed line of effect would need to cast greater arcane sight to know where that window was.

 

[gabrion]

Just in case I wasn't clear enough, I know the OP was talking about Archmage, but I'm talking about doing this through ESA from CAdv. This makes a difference because it doesn't leave a "square" unaffected by the spell, but an individual. A big difference.

Because antimagic field only suppresses magic within it's area. If the wizard is not within the antimagic area, neither will the magic arrows when they hit him.

See above. The caster is the only thing in the AMF not subject to the effect of the spell, so unless a ranged weapon that hits him becomes part of him or his gear, it is still subject to the AMF.

You seem to think that the PCs will be sitting around doing nothing instead of countering this threat.

Remember, if he has antimagic around him, he cannot attack into that antimagic area with his "firblog with tensor's transformation" since the parts of his body that attempt to attack get suppressed just like all other magic (and claw attacks become unarmed attacks which if he does not have Improved Unarmed Attack, the opponent gets an Attack of Opportunity to not only attempt to hit him, but can negate his attack as well).

The Firblog will still fit in the AMF, and yet be immune to it. It doesn't matter which square he reaches into.

Plus, anyone attacking him with a magic weapon attacks into his square(s), hence, anyone who attacks him has the magic of their weapon no longer suppressed.

And the opposite of my statement for the firblog above is true for the opponent. There weapons will not be magical, even when they hit the caster of the spell.

And another thing, if the wizard is medium sized, no problem.

But, if he Shapechanges into a huge or larger creature, then there are "holes" in the antimagic field for others to attack through.

Check out page 307 and 308 of the DMG. The largest a Wizard can shapechange to is large, otherwise the antimagic field only protects him from two sides (or not at all for gargantuan or larger sizes).

Plus, if he shapechanges or polymorphs into a large creature, there are 4 corner squares where the enemy fighters can attack him and they are not in the antimagic field, hence, all of their magic still works.

Yes it would be silly to use a huge or larger creatue. This is one reason I picked the Firblog. As for attacking from the corners, I don't see how that is possible without a reach of 10 ft. or more. The AMF will have a 20 ft. Diameter, so it would still reach 3 ft. into those corner squares. Besides, you just said that once they swing a weapon into the AMF, it turns off the magic, so even if the fighter gets some of the bonuses from equipment, his weapon won't be magic. Also, why do we give the fighter the advantage of attacking from a corner, when 8 out of 12 spaces around the caster will be within the AMF? If he is in combat with someone, I think it makes sense that he would be facing them while fighting. Actually, he would probably be flying (horizontally) over them, making it nearly impossible to swing at him without a 10 ft. reach.

In any case, if this is a problem, just use a rod of enlarge spell to fix it.

This is mostly a defensive tactic.

It can be, but it also works well for offense.

Another thought, AMF has a radius of 10'. If someone dumps an evocation with a radius of 20' just outside the field - say a fireball, what happens?

The effect will obviously be cancelled in the AMF, but will it pass through that to affect the holes in the field? IIRC, the field only supresses effects, but does not cancel them?

I'd be inclined to let the mage cook, just to teach them lessons about cheese?

The fireball wouldn't hurt him because AMF blocks line of effect. I used to think otherwise, since they haven't put it in the 3.5 FAQ, and it is in the old one, but all about magic on the wizards site covers this point.

 

[radferth]

You can do some pretty funky things with antimagic field, shaped or not. Some of the combos listed would be quite deadly, but it seems that many of them revolve around the DM letting the shells owner somehow position things so that the can keep magic off their foes, but still be able to pound those foes with magic attacks. None of the combos mentions seem any worse than a wizard riding a trained war elephant in a plane old unshaped AMF. I always figure if a caster has plenty of buff spells running, run away until the short duration spells wear off, then attack.

 

[radferth]

Does that spell aim thing from Complete Adventurer work with a spell with duration like AMF? I don't have a copy nearby, and it seems odd that it could work with spells that have a continous area effect like AMF or Wall of Fire for that matter.

 

[gabrion]

Does that spell aim thing from Complete Adventurer work with a spell with duration like AMF? I don't have a copy nearby, and it seems odd that it could work with spells that have a continous area effect like AMF or Wall of Fire for that matter.

Yes it does work with duration spells. IMO that is the mistake made in the feat, and the very reason it can break things. I'm pretty sure it was meant to be used with instantaneous spells (so the fireball wouldn't burn someone), but they didn't put anything in to limit its use with duration spells.

Maybe they will address it in an errata some time.

 

[Sledge]

Actually the mistake in this thread is thinking that AMF nullifies magic. The FAQ entry stating it blocks line of effect is incorrect according to Andy Collins. See http://p198.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm12.showMessage?topicID=602.topic for details.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Actually the mistake in this thread is thinking that AMF nullifies magic. The FAQ entry stating it blocks line of effect is incorrect according to Andy Collins. See http://p198.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm12.showMessage?topicID=602.topic for details.

That's a crazy thread. I love it!

 

[gabrion]

Actually the mistake in this thread is thinking that AMF nullifies magic. The FAQ entry stating it blocks line of effect is incorrect according to Andy Collins. See http://p198.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm12.showMessage?topicID=602.topic for details.

Well that's an interesting debat and I was the one who started the thread at the COB (you will notice my opinion there was chaged by the reference to Skip's ruling), but I still don't see how it negates Skip's ruling, or show why AMF wouldn't block LOE. It just doesn't make sense to think that a spellcaster could cast out of his AMF. The spell itself would be broken at that point, no need for shaping. I think the only way it helps is if you like Andy better than Skip, which is fine, but not conclusive.

Anyway, I really don't want this particular debate, but suffice to say it takes a DM ruling on what AMF does if you aren't willing to listen to Skip or the 3.0 FAQ.