Is this gaming product too offensive or merely funny?

[GRIMJIM]

I find the idea that a twenty- or thirty-something writer thought he was bringing the funny with this fishwrap to be more offensive than the actual content. The content is simply juvenile.

That's rather part of the point, you see the real target of the humour in the whole book is the sort of person that holds those attitudes for real and the stereotypical male gamer geek who lives in his mother's cellar and breaks out into a sweat just looking at themselves naked in the mirror because they have breasts of their own. (Albeit hairy man-paps).

Admittedly you can't get that so easily just from reading abit of cut material, but you CAN get it.

 

[fanboy2000]

Yes, I feel that taken independently of the rest of the material the web enhancment doesn't represent the material in the book. Its isolated and is material that was cut largely to placate already hyper-sensitive distributors when there were still harcopies of this book left to distribute. In that sense its not really an enhancement, its 'this was cut'. In that way it's also not advertising, its a bonus.

So, even though I dislike the web enhancement, you feel that I'm likely to enjoy the book itself? Curious.

If I loved the web enhancement, and said so, would you post saying that I can't comment untill I bought and read the book?

 

[boredgremlin]

Seems like this is just the stuff that didnt make the cut for the actual book. Kinda like when you spend 5$ extra for the DVD movie with "bonus features and deleted scenes". Then the extra scenes allways suck. Doesnt mean the movie sucked though.

 

[Paragon Kobold]

Particle man not only found this product offensive, he found it so offensive he
had to start treads about it both here and on RPGnet, declaring his intention to
boycott an entire company. This means we now have an opportunity to do compare the
responses on the two boards and find out which community is the easiest to offend.

Any bets?

 

[GRIMJIM]

So, even though I dislike the web enhancement, you feel that I'm likely to enjoy the book itself? Curious.

If I loved the web enhancement, and said so, would you post saying that I can't comment untill I bought and read the book?

Not in those terms, but I'd suggest you'd get a lot more out of the rest of the book.
And yes, there's distinct possibility you'll like the whole, rather than the part.

The problem here is that taken by itself this section is not at all representative of the rest of the work, especially with the spin being put on it by the original poster.

"Look at the terrible defamation of women in this!"

Bollocks.

"Look at the terrible defamation of fat ugly gamers who don't understand women!" would be closer to the mark and someone actually stepping up to defend the smelly-beardy from the barbs of humour would be a welcome difference.

Personally I find this kneejerk White Knight syndrome to be just as, if not more, offensive than if the web enhancement were to be taken seriously or aimed, as the less perceptive seem to think, at actually ripping into women.

OK, so maybe the Oblivious Fat Lass is a bit, but seriously, its an international problem that needs attention.

 

[beakie]

Thank you, Particle_Man, for pointing this out to us. I realize it's a little late in the thread for this, but everyone except for am181d has missed the point entirely. The work as a whole isn't offensive, it is, as his been pointed out by many people, simply unfunny and a weak comment on stereotypes. What's offensive is the casual use of the hateful epithet "Dyke". Racial slurs and hateful epithets cannot be separated from the violence, discrimination, and intolerance that give rise to them. There is nothing funny about them, and it goes beyond insensitivity to find them funny and inocuous enough to use in a humorous gaming product. That can only to stem from blindness to and ignorance of the intolerance that gives rise to such words and the consequences of such intolerance. The stereotypes that male gamers have of females are important to point out and discuss, but epithets like "Dyke" have no place in such discussions. They serve only to perpetuate the stereotypes and their effects on those who hold them, and those who are hurt by them.

The gaming community has always been a safe haven for those who are marginalized by mainstream society, and the use of hurtful epithets violates that trust. When a gamer, a forum member, an author, or a publisher uses such terms, it is an aggressive action that sends the message that the author considers the targets of their speech to be outside of the community, and undeserving of basic respect.

If James Desborough and Mongoose Publishing respect the gaming community and all of its members, they will apologize and alter or remove the offending document. No one can force them, it is their choice. But gamers who value an inclusive and tolerant gaming community free of hatred are also free to choose to support only those publishers and authors who share their values.

You can say I'm overreacting, that a single word is a trifling matter. You can call me a PC Nazi, or misrepresent me any way you wish. But I, for one, will not be buying any of those Paranoia XP books I was eyeing.

jakebone

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

Hi guys,

A nicer atmosphere here, I cannot deny

I won't crosspost but if anyone is even interested in a response (!), you can toddle off to here;

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=3888743#post3888743

 

[fanboy2000]

The problem here is that taken by itself this section is not at all representative of the rest of the work, especially with the spin being put on it by the original poster.

I dissagree. The problem is that you wrote a humor book, and humor is more subjective than game balance. I'll debate game balance with someone, even though I know I can't convince the other person, because I'll often learn something in the process, and I'm stubborn bastard. There's no point in debating humor. There's defiantly no point in explaining the humor and telling someone they don't get it.

Personally I find this kneejerk White Knight syndrome to be just as, if not more, offensive than if the web enhancement were to be taken seriously or aimed, as the less perceptive seem to think, at actually ripping into women.

Well, on this thread, Particle Man's been civil about the whole thing. I typically anti-political correctness. I'm defending it now because, on this thread, Particle Man's only mentioned his own position and asked for opinions about it. He's not advocating censorship, he's making a personal choice about future purchasing decisions.

You had to know that some people weren't going to find the book funny. It's not it's uncommon for people to disagree with humor. You had to know that subject matter would upset some people, I have trouble beliving this thread comes as a suprise to you. And I understand that you feel the web enhancement isn't indicative of the book's contents, but that's like titling a book "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" and being surprised when people buy it and complain that's it's not about a guy named Buck Rogers. (I had this happen to me, and I'm still bitter over it. )

Of course, I'm not going to boycott Mongoose over this. I love Paranoia XP to much to boycott them.

 

[S'mon]

Yes, I feel that taken independently of the rest of the material the web enhancment doesn't represent the material in the book. Its isolated and is material that was cut largely to placate already hyper-sensitive distributors when there were still harcopies of this book left to distribute. In that sense its not really an enhancement, its 'this was cut'. In that way it's also not advertising, its a bonus. You bought this? Have some extra value.

I do think it was not a good idea for Mongoose to release this 'too extreme for the product' section as a free download that could be read in isolation (like by following the link in the first post of this thread). While it might have worked fine as part of the whole book, reading it on its own like that I did find it pretty unpleasant.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I didn't find it all that funny, but with one exception it did not offend me much either. But given that it is an outtake I am not basing an opinion of the book as a whole off of it. On the other hand it does not fill me with an urge to purchase the PDF either.

As for boycotting the company... seems a bit of an over reaction.

The Auld Grump