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It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

I'd argue that if you have expectations for WotC to release their OneD&D SRD as open content and they "are crazy" if they don't then that's taking it personally.
Who are you quoting there?

It's not me.
I'm curious about the motivation behind this because I truly believe they have every right to do what they want.
The motivation behind what? You've already quoted me saying something I didn't say so I'm wondering if you're confusing me with someone else at this point.
 

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ValamirCleaver

Ein Jäger aus Kurpfalz
I mean, the fat lady sang when the rules were put into CC. The rest is outro from the orchestra while the audience files out.
Really? When were the 3.0, Revised (3.5) & Modern SRDs put into the CC? How does any of this secure the continued use of 22½ years of OGC, that many games that are in no way D&D related use, from any potential Wizbro capriciousness?
 

Imaro

Legend
Who are you quoting there?

It's not me.

The motivation behind what? You've already quoted me saying something I didn't say so I'm wondering if you're confusing me with someone else at this point.

I think you're taking offence and I am not trying to offend. I was trying to explain why I asked the initial question, I thought you were implying that if WotC made it closed they were continuing crazy behavior (and I was curious as to why someone would feel that way)... but you clarified that you were just curious about their actions and what it said about their plans for D&D. I am honestly not trying to start anything so I will bow out of this line of the conversation.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Really? When were the 3.0, Revised (3.5) & Modern SRDs put into the CC? How does any of this secure the continued use of 22½ years of OGC, that many games that are in no way D&D related use, from any potential Wizbro capriciousness?
I don't use that, and it not under threat now because of the CC maneuver anyways
 

Incenjucar

Legend
I'm not taking it personally, I'd argue that if you have expectations for WotC to release their OneD&D SRD as open content and they "are crazy" if they don't then that's taking it personally. I'm curious about the motivation behind this because I truly believe they have every right to do what they want. Deauthorizing the OGL 1.0a IMO was wrong because of the expectations and dependencies WotC had set up for it but if they choose to make a future product closed off... well for me at least it doesn't really have anything to do with what just happened. But you've made it clear that you weren't expressing that expectation only curiosity, which is why I asked initially if I was misinterpreting what you were getting at.
It would be a poor choice on their part because doing so encourages 3P developers to stop supporting the current game and supplying WotC with the benefits of the network effects, and would lose a chunk of the community good will they just got back.

The audience has been rather clear that they want D&D to be supported by 3P without a bunch of strings attached. If WotC disagrees, the impact may not be huge, but it will be non-zero.
 

Stormonu

Legend
You don't thank the thief for breaking into your house to rob you blind, even if he reconsiders and takes nothing.

I've long stated that 5E was the last edition of D&D that I was going to involve myself with, and I see myself drifting away from the content they've been producing lately. This kerfluffle has just doubled-down on that. I've always also been an RPG collector, and this has only increased my interest at looking at other systems.
 

I was speaking to a comparison with other industries. Sorry if I didn't express that clearly
Then yes, I'd say most people hold other industry leaders to a similar standard. The exact concept about open material doesn't really apply directly, but let's go with the broader "this has been an established business practice for years" concept since IMO that's what the bulk of the pushback to WotC was about.

Let's use Microsoft as an example. If they patched Windows 10 and 11 next month with a patch that removed all admin rights on your computer and only allowed you to install things on your PC through their app store, people would flip out despite the fact that people have largely accepted that model from Apple with their iOS devices. Why? Apple made their walled garden the standard from day 1 (and arguably a selling point because of some assumed baseline of security and quality), while Microsoft has years of established standard of allowing you to install whatever you like on your PC.

Edit: Look at the pushback Microsoft received when they announced the Xbox One and said your console had to remain connected to the internet and once you bought a game you couldn't trade it to a friend when you were done with it. Sony's guide to sharing used games with your friends was a pretty good marketing move.

 
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Retreater

Legend
For me, the answer to the debate about "why do we expect an open license from WotC and not other publishers" is that they created the OGL themselves, with the intent to keep it open forever (according to Ryan Dancey and others there at the time).
The more restrictive GSL in the 4e era was totally acceptable (even though I'd have loved a more open system).
If they want to block off 6e, go for it, but don't pull licenses that have stood for decades.
You know another system with a "walled garden"? Palladium. There's not too many complaints about that.
 


Imaro

Legend
It would be a poor choice on their part because doing so encourages 3P developers to stop supporting the current game and supplying WotC with the benefits of the network effects, and would lose a chunk of the community good will they just got back.

The audience has been rather clear that they want D&D to be supported by 3P without a bunch of strings attached. If WotC disagrees, the impact may not be huge, but it will be non-zero.

See in order for it to be judged by anyone to be a poor choice on their part you would have to know their goals for D&D... and we just don't. Also the audience was clear they don't want 3pp for D&D to be unfairly penalized... assuming that the same reaction would take place for an open license that was neither promised nor already in place is assuming alot.
 

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