It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[Incenjucar]

Since we're playing anecdotes, my non-D&D RPG purchases increased once 5E came about because I noped out of 5E, and my 3P D&D purchases increased once the OGL nonsense happened. In the pre-5E days I ignored 3P entirely and barely touched anything other than D&D proper.

Now that all this has happened, 3P can make a lot of money off of me if their material appeals to me. And that's all assuming I merely consume material and don't decide to program something or stream on Twitch or YouTube.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A boycott big enough to hurt 3Ps is going to mean WotC was probably already doing something bad enough to hurt 3Ps.

Thank god they did not. Seems like they boosted 3pps instead.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

DIdn't say all.

You actually did say "all"...

All those people who stopped playing D&D? They're playing other games now.

But I guess you meant: "Many of them will be playing other games".

Was just me being nitpicky...

 

[Faolyn]

You actually did say "all"...



But I guess you meant: "Many of them will be playing other games".

Was just me being nitpicky...

OK, yes, I was engaging in hyperbole.

 

[gban007]

I don't know, somewhere along the way it feel the message in this thread, outside of the thread title itself, turned from a reasonable in my opinion message of 'hey, now that WOTC has backed down somewhat and 3PPs can keep publishing for 3e / 5e, don't forget to try and support 3PPs, given our push back was based on 3PPs being hurt' to something more like 'purchasing official WOTC products is the only way to support 3PPs, any other way is going to hurt them and you should feel bad about it' - feels like some form of emotional blackmail pushing an obligation on us to buy WOTC products, when there should never be an obligation for consumers to buy a product from a provider, if there is an obligation it is an obligation on the provider to provide a product people want to get.

If people have lost desire to buy from WOTC as a result of what has occurred - that is on WOTC ultimately, if there is some sort of moral obligation to make sure 3PP aren't hurt, then I would argue WOTC should be the one making it right, not consumers.

If 5e shrinks as a result of this, then ultimately the 3PP will need to change as a result - not necessarily fair on them, but unfortunately it happens, as in any industry if the market moves for whatever reason - plenty of businesses close down every day sadly, but that isn't consumer's fault for that occurring - things just change. Just be glad that thanks to WOTC backing down in the face of consumer pressure, that 3PPs are able to publish as freely as they are able to, even if to a smaller audience - it is far better than what the alternative would have been.

 

[ThorinTeague]

something more like 'purchasing official WOTC products is the only way to support 3PPs, any other way is going to hurt them and you should feel bad about it' - feels like some form of emotional blackmail pushing an obligation on us to buy WOTC products

Emotionally blackmail me all you like, WoTC will never see another thin dime from me unless it's by accident. I'm not even buying anything off OBS.

 

[mamba]

Emotionally blackmail me all you like, WoTC will never see another thin dime from me unless it's by accident. I'm not even buying anything off OBS.

you probably should distinguish between DriveThru and DMsGuild here, WotC only gets a cut from the latter (afaik)

 

[ThorinTeague]

you probably should distinguish between DriveThru and DMsGuild here, WotC only gets a cut from the latter (afaik)

I assumed it was all of OBS...?

 

[Velderan]

I assumed it was all of OBS...?

OBS also has a Pathfinder subsite, so guessing WotC only receives money from their items sold on DriveThruRPG (e.g. Gamma World) but not other systems (e.g. Shadowrun) or 5e OGL material.

 

[mamba]

I assumed it was all of OBS...?

both are OBS, but they distinguish sites for a reason. DMG is the one where you can use WotC IP and pay a fee to WotC for doing so, DT does not. There you just pay OBS for their service and can just use the OGL (or be unrelated to D&D altogether)

 

[ThorinTeague]

both are OBS, but they distinguish sites for a reason. DMG is the one where you can use WotC IP and pay a fee to WotC for doing so, DT does not. There you just pay OBS for their service and can just use the OGL (or be unrelated to D&D altogether)

I had thought WoTC profits from that anything purchased from OBS. It appears I will need to educate myself on what I can purchase there without benefitting WoTC.

 

[ThorinTeague]

I want to make it really really clear and will probably reiterate a few times: Yes I am boycotting D&D and yes I am passionate about it. Please do NOT confuse that with judging anybody else's decision. Shattered World is a judgement-free zone, you can safely continue to play, love, and DM for 5e without any fear of verbal abuse from me or anyone in my crew.

 

[mamba]

I had thought WoTC profits from that anything purchased from OBS. It appears I will need to educate myself on what I can purchase there without benefitting WoTC.

Some things are available on both DTRPG and DMsG, so for those I assume WotC does get a cut either way. If it is on DTRPG only, WotC should not.

 

[glass]

Identifying when someone is gaslighting me and others in this thread is factually speaking not gaslighting.

In previous posts you were gaslighting me. That is straight up fact.

The "straight up fact" is that nobody in this thread is gaslighting anyone else. Gaslighting requires an intimate relationship, and involves a betrayal of trust from someone who the victim ought to be able to trust the most, with the aim of the victim doubting their own sanity. Nobody in this thread has that kind of relationship or level of trust, so nobody in this thread is being or can be gaslighted.

If someone else in the thread says something which conflicts with your perceived reality, you might doubt their sanity but it is not going to make you doubt your own.

Please do not devalue the term.

 

[timespike]

I just found this thread, so forgive me if I don't wade through 51(!) pages of comments before weighing in.

I was pretty close to done with WotC in November before any of the OGL stuff started circulating. I've found their design to be boring for a while now, and I find a lot of the lore, cosmology, and other thinking that comes with the D&D brand to be tedious. I do like d20-based, class-and-level adventure fantasy RPGs, however.

Hot take time: I don't like gith. I hate the blood war. I'm not a huge fan of beholders. I have no particular fondness any of the official D&D settings that aren't Eberron or a repurposed Magic: the Gathering setting, and even in that case, they've left all the best ones like Eldraine, Tarkir, Dominaria, and Alara on the table. I also haven't used a WotC monster book in years.

More mainstream takes: I really like a lot of the innovations that appear in Level Up. I like having a maneuver system, rare spells, "race" split into heritage and culture, exploration knacks, and so on. I like these as a player, GM, and designer, it bears mentioning.

And I have been a firm believer that all of the best design for supplements, settings, and the like has been coming from the 3PP community for over twenty years.

Why would I go back to D&D? WotC offers nothing I want.