James Wyatt + FR!?

[Arnwyn]

So, it would seem they are changing a few things due to the internet outcry?

No, it sounds entirely like damage control to me.

Unfortunately, those new players would then meet an experienced player who would tell them they'd got everything wrong.

And this happens so often that they need to design around such events? I find that highly unlikely.

 

[Burke]

I'm glad to see changes to FR. And I'm disappointed that internet fans stopped the same from happening in Eberron.

My thinking is, I have the 3e FRCS. I have some of the supplements. I don't need to buy them again. I don't want a 4e FRCS that details the same stuff as my 3e version only with different rules. That's not a campaign setting, it's a conversion document, and I wouldn't buy that. Shakes things up, give me something new, that's what I want. The more changes the better, because if I don't like them and just want to play the 3e version, well, I can already do that.

 

[Samnell]

It was almost as if the setting was transplanted from somewhere else- it even had different gods (Baal and Chauntea were "interloper deities" from the mainland). Very little changed there in all the transitions between editions.

It was transplanted from elsewhere. Douglas Niles wrote the first trilogy under the plan that it would be a Dragonlance UK sort of thing, set somewhere off and away from the main body of Ansalon. When those plans fell through, the series was mostly written so they just tied it into the Realms and put out the first book in advance of the Old Grey Box. Ed's original Moonshae design was informed more by Earthsea.

Something similar seems to have happened with Rich Baker's "The Shadow Stone". It's very obviously a biography of High Mage Aelies from Birthright, rewritten into Chessenta. At one point the editor missed reference to the armies of Avanil and Boeruine clashing.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It was transplanted from elsewhere.

Ahhh, that could be the summary of most parts of FR by itself. I often wish I could get a vision of what FR would be like, Ed's untouched creation, had it not become the dumping ground for so much.

 

[Desdichado]

sense of wonder

Now he's done it.

 

[Brian Compton]

It was transplanted from elsewhere. Douglas Niles wrote the first trilogy under the plan that it would be a Dragonlance UK sort of thing, set somewhere off and away from the main body of Ansalon. When those plans fell through, the series was mostly written so they just tied it into the Realms and put out the first book in advance of the Old Grey Box. Ed's original Moonshae design was informed more by Earthsea.

Hm. I wonder then, assuming you're correct, if the novels were an afterthought? Again, potentially spurred by the success of Dragonlance? I remember the original cover text to "Darkwalker on Moonshae" touting this as being from the same company who brought us the New York Times Best-Selling "Dragnonlance" series.

So I ask again, when did the philosophy change that the novels would be an afterthought to the novels driving the series, often quite massively? I don't have a problem with the novels dealing with out-of-the-way places or with one-off adventures. I do have a problem with the RSE-inducing novels.

 

[Samnell]

So I ask again, when did the philosophy change that the novels would be an afterthought to the novels driving the series, often quite massively? I don't have a problem with the novels dealing with out-of-the-way places or with one-off adventures. I do have a problem with the RSE-inducing novels.

I suspect that happened the moment Dragonlance became a best-seller. At the time, I'm sure the people at TSR saw no reason to do any differently. It's only dozens of best-selling blow-up-the-world trilogies later that the problems with the novel-driven setting as a gaming medium became apparent.

EDIT: Jeff Grubb and Ed on the Moonshaes:
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/moonshae.htm

 

[Henry]

Ahhh, that could be the summary of most parts of FR by itself. I often wish I could get a vision of what FR would be like, Ed's untouched creation, had it not become the dumping ground for so much.

Ed has said before, basically, chop off everything outside of the sword coast, the heartlands, and the Dales, and you have most of it. There are people who don't realize how much stuff they like (e.g. the Moonshae isles, Doug Niles' baby!) were someone else's work.

 

[Brian Compton]

It's only dozens of best-selling blow-up-the-world trilogies later that the problems with the novel-driven setting as a gaming medium became apparent.[/url]

R.A. Salvatore's novels may have been best-sellers or come close, but have any other Realms novels done so?

Also, I think they knew the problem with novel-driven settings, as well as small settings. Ansalon of Krynn just is not very big, and the novels pretty much covered every corner. Then you throw in time-travel, and now even the past isn't safe for playing because you could contradict some plot point no matter when or where you set your campaign.

"Ignore the books," you say. But how can you? They defined Krynn for just about everyone. That would be like saying "Play a Middle-Earth game and ignore the Hobbit and the LotR trilogy." How can you ignore that which defined the setting and made people interested in it in the first place? Same for Wheel of Time and Song of Ice and Fire, or any other game with a big media tie-in. I leave out Star Wars, because there you have enough unused planets to do whatever you want whenever you want without bumping into problems.

Hence why I could see where they might have wanted the Realms to go in a different direction in relation to novels and setting. Play with the Moonshaes all you want, or the frozen wastes of the North, or some obscure mountain range in the southern lands, or the underground areas- we've still got a massive continent for the players and DM's to use. Or do a small story in a corner of Sembia, Cormyr, or the Dales- it gives the place some more definition without totally making it the author's personal playground that no one else dare touch lest they ruin every readers' experience (or ruin every players' because they feel like its deja vu all over again).

It's when they decided to try and be like Dragonlance and go after the whole continent/world that they made the Realms less fun to play. Like one of the people in my group said, it's not so fun when you feel you're just being dragged along with the story, only to have said story get retconned come the next novel or event.

I still have one nagging question- who buys the novels more? Gamers or non-gamers? If it's the former, we have only ourselves to blame. If the latter... if the latter, then I'm not happy.

 

[Samnell]

R.A. Salvatore's novels may have been best-sellers or come close, but have any other Realms novels done so?

The Avatar Trilogy used to claim to be best-sellers.

It's when they decided to try and be like Dragonlance and go after the whole continent/world that they made the Realms less fun to play. Like one of the people in my group said, it's not so fun when you feel you're just being dragged along with the story, only to have said story get retconned come the next novel or event.

I think DL proved the novel+game tie-in was a great seller, sure. It's the first time that I know of that TSR tried it.

I still have one nagging question- who buys the novels more? Gamers or non-gamers? If it's the former, we have only ourselves to blame. If the latter... if the latter, then I'm not happy.

I suspect it's a mix. I read some of the novels and run the setting. I do know that some years ago there was a kerfuffle on the FR mailing list about the fact that some of the authors of setting products never played in the Realms or did so only briefly. I would name names, but I don't know if my memory of which was which is accurate. Ed still runs games for his original players.