Joking and Teasing: How far is too far?

[mmu1]

I think it depends to a large degree on how well you know the people you play with - what I usually try to go by is this:

If I don't know the person well, I try to avoid anything but the most inoffensive sort of humor. (that's assuming they don't start making jokes at my expense, which I figure means you're presenting yourself as fair game for similar humor)

If they're my friends, I think pretty much anything goes, as long as it doesn't actually hurt or humiliate someone. (sting and embarass a little is fine)

Another good rule of thumb is: If you're making jokes at someone's expense, and that person never appears amused, however briefly or reluctantly - then there's a small chance that they're completely devoid of humor / have a completely incompatible sense of humor, but a very significant likelihood that you're being a huge jerk. (or just aren't nearly as funny as you think you are)

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Geek Social Fallacy #1: Ostracizers Are Evil

Should a group tone itself down to accomodate a player, or should the player simply be advised to seek a different group that would fit him or her better?

The latter; life is short.

-Samir

 

[Barak]

I have to agree with the Thayan Menace. If a new player joined my group, he'd have to deal, or decide not to play with us anymore. We shouldn't be expected to change our whole group dynamic to accomodate him. Heck, I was the "new" guy a few years ago, and I dealt with it. Another new guy joined us since I did, and he's doing ok. We make fun of him every week for that one time he triggered a trap -twice- and killed another player's character.

The heck with 'em if they can't take a joke.

 

[Dog Moon]

In my group, no one is perfect [not even me, I admit], so we all end up making fun of each other, but more in a not so mean-spirited way, and we tend to not let it consume us.

Now if everyone constantly made fun of a single person, I think that is too far.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It has gone too far when the target says it has gone too far. The group described was in the wrong and should have stopped.

When the target asks for it to stop - it needs to stop. If it doesn't stop at that point it crosses the line from 'good-natured' to 'mean-spirited'. No exceptions.

QFT.

 

[Mercule]

Was really relieved when I got to college and found out adults don't usually act this way.

Um... Yes they do. I've noticed it in pretty much every workplace, club, or even gathering I've been in. It's just a bit more subtle. Oddly, though, I agree with you about college. Not much of that seems to happen there.

It's unfortunate. It's also true that it should stop well before the point that someone feels put down. That's if you actually value the person, at least. Sometimes things get out of hand, but if someone actually leaves the group, or considers themselves extraneous to it, then it's definitely gone way too far.

Something that I've found that most people aren't aware of is that one can mock oneself a lot more than someone else can. I can joke about being bald all day long, and it's cool. My friends can get away with it once or twice every couple of gatherings. Likewise, if I do something foolish, I can say, "I'm an idiot," but you'd better never say, "What an idiot" about me, no matter how dumb I acted.

 

[The Shaman]

Insulting someone's disability is too far.

Did you really need confimation of this?

 

[Umbran]

Insulting someone's disability is too far.

Agreed. Among friends, it can be okay to pick on a person for choices they make, stupid things they say or do. Picking on them for a physical disability over which they have little or no control I'd generally have to call mean-spirited. There may be individual cases where the victim decides it is okay. Otherwise, it's just plain hurtful.

As for whether or not the group should change for one individual - that depends on how much they want a new individual. If you don't actually want them, by all means, make no changes to your group. If, however, you really want them there, be prepared to make changes for them just as you would for any other member of the group. There should be no "second class" players who get less consideration.

 

[prosfilaes]

Insulting someone's disability is too far.

I think it depends on the person; I could probably take a lot of joking about my glasses and height, but my friend who has a slighly hunched back made it very clear the first time I said anything about it that it was out of line. Certainly it's something very sensitive, and something you'd need to back off on real quick.

 

[merelycompetent]

I had to rewrite my response a couple of times. I finally came up with something that I think is acceptable, while still getting the points I want to make across. I'm not going to go through the original post point by point. Instead, I'll make a few general comments and answer your questions directly.

First, the general comments:
* Naturally he was the target of those verbal assaults - you see similar behavior among non-sentient pack-oriented animals. Among humans, this sort of behavior is beyond rude.

* No offense was meant, but it was given, over and over, until he left.

* Jokes are not always made at someone's expense. Insults always are. These weren't jokes. They were insults.

To answer your questions directly:
1. It's gone too far when someone gets hurt. This doesn't mean that you have to sugar-coat every single phrase to avoid hurting overly-sensitive feelings. (Please don't get me started about Drama Queens/Kings.) It *does* mean that the members of the group should have enough dignity and respect to treat a newcomer with basic courtesy and civility, at least until they get settled in for a few sessions.

2. Groups supercede individuals - it's a fact of human life. A group shouldn't have to rewrite its entire interaction just because a newcomer is sensitive about loud noises, for example. IMO, this group is toxic, and should be avoided by all reasonable, self-respecting individuals. However, I will not refuse them the right to play as they wish, so long as they don't do it around me or to me.

3. A self-respecting player with a modicum of decency would be strongly advised to avoid a group like this - and leave it as early as possible when encountered. If the new player has only been there for one or two sessions, it's time to leave as soon as the first casually rude insult is let loose with accompanying laughter. If this is how they treat a newcomer, imagine the carnage should you accidentally transgress while among them.

What a horrible way to treat a new player.