Kind of Silly: Improvised Weapons with Bane ability

[Rashak Mani]

Yesterday I was grappled (bitten) by a dragon... whilst holding a Dragon Bane Bow. If I had used it as an improvised weapon, bashing him with it... would the bane damage bonus have worked ?

 

[glass]

Yesterday I was grappled (bitten) by a dragon... whilst holding a Dragon Bane Bow. If I had used it as an improvised weapon, bashing him with it... would the bane damage bonus have worked ?

I would say no, but since my last rules posting turned to be gibberish the answer is probably yes

glass.

 

[Grazzt]

I would rule no myself.

 

[Darklone]

If that's a poll, I vote for no. My logic would be: Shield enhancement bonuses don't count as enhancement bonuses for attacks, e.g.... wait a second. They do, don't they? Argh.

Ok. I say no, the rules probably say yes.

 

[the Jester]

Not in my campaign.

 

[reiella]

Hmm, three ways to approach this issue with ranged weapons and enchantments.

1) The bow is being treated as a sort of 'double-weapon', and it's "melee head" isn't enchanted yada. However, that would still result in an improvished weapon that should be masterwork since I don't believe you can make only half of a double-weapon masterwork. ( No Bane bonus )

2) Using a weapon as an improvished weapon is simply another 'function' of the weapon (Such as Trip Attacks). And since I'm pretty sure you apply your enhancement bonus to your trip attack attempt, the enhancement bonuses and other magic effects on the bow should apply. ( Yes Bane Bonus )

3) Text line from 3.5 SRD Bane.

Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition.

This may be interpreted as meaning that bows, crossbows, and slings with this enchantment ONLY bestow it upon their ammunition. ( No Bane Bonus )

Interesting sidenote, in 3.0, it would appear the only way for a Dragon-bane bow to be effective, would be when you're using an improvished weapon (it isn't in the ranged weapon specials, nor does it convey its bonus to the ammunition).

Honestly, I'd lean toward #3 for justification, it's the sleakest, and kinda makes the most sense to me. It also keeps from implying that bows/etc are somehow "enchanted twice" to both enchant their ammo and the weapon itself.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

I would say yes, why not, makes it that bow that good, he still takes -4 to hit, the bow is bane against dragons and the opponent was a dragon is that your litte problem. Do you fear that the archer will now, in any melee combat will use his bow as weapon because it is that good, would be rather stupid, and on top of that, may be you should sunder the bow if he pulls that stunt too often. But sundering items, is never the best idea. Don't worry too much, it is not worth that much.

@Darklone: The enhancement bonus that shields have counts only for the AC, if you would enchant a shield that it would be a +1 or better magic weapon the shield would have to enhancement boni, one that adds to the wielders AC and one that adds to the wielders to hit & damage rolls with the shield.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

@reiella: It is possible, to make only one end of a double weapon masterwork or only to enchant one end.

3) Makes sense indeed, I was thinking about that, too. That would imply that only the pluses the ranged weapon might have would count, when used as an improvised weapon. So a +3 flaming bane... bow would only be a +3 improvised weapon.

As I said before, allowing it, would not make any ranged weapons too good at all.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Well its only a theoretical question... longbows are medium weapons if I am not mistaken and in a grapple I wouldn't have been able to bash him with it.

Still its a funny image an archer running out of arrows (never seen this happen) and he starts bashing his bow onto the heads of his foes.