Lame Prestige Classes

[cignus_pfaccari]

I agree to a point...but what about long missions far away from where he normally works? That's carrying a spellbook around. Not only that, but what if a PC picks up the class? I've never encountered a PC who would dare leave their spellbooks out of sight.

It goes in the attache case where he keeps his +5 Composite Longbow of Doom.

Personally, I think if it's a spot caster, it ought to run off of Charisma instead of Intelligence. But that's just me.

Brad

 

[Hypersmurf]

I've seen every one of these classes in play except for the Red Wizard and the Hierophant, (but I've played an Archmage which is just the arcane hierophant.)

No, no, the Arcane Hierophant is a druid/wizard PrC from Races of the Wild!

-Hyp.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I agree to a point...but what about long missions far away from where he normally works? That's carrying a spellbook around. Not only that, but what if a PC picks up the class? I've never encountered a PC who would dare leave their spellbooks out of sight.

Ah, but then you run into the classic "metagame concerns v. character concerns" argument.

To me, if the flavor of the class suggests that it is difficult for PCs to travel with a spellbook, well, then that's their problem to deal with. The assassin, as written, is really very much more of an urban class, a guy who has his operational area and tends to stick within it (at least as I see it). The fact that this might make it difficult for a traditional adventurer to take the PrC is, in my mind, just another aspect of RPing the class.

But now we've gone way off-topic, I think.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Ah, but then you run into the classic "metagame concerns v. character concerns" argument.

Touche.

To me, if the flavor of the class suggests that it is difficult for PCs to travel with a spellbook, well, then that's their problem to deal with. The assassin, as written, is really very much more of an urban class, a guy who has his operational area and tends to stick within it (at least as I see it). The fact that this might make it difficult for a traditional adventurer to take the PrC is, in my mind, just another aspect of RPing the class.

I can see that, but that still doesn't seem to affect what the Assassin would need. It really just seems to make more sense that the Assassin would be the kind ready for anything, prepared for the unknown, and preparing spells goes completely against this. Its impossible to predict what one might need, and so the best idea would be to have everything ready just in case. So...with that, at least, sponatenous casting makes a lot more sense, as that gives more of an ability to react to whatever comes up.

But now we've gone way off-topic, I think.

But its sooo fun.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, as long as we're staying off-topic a bit more...

I can see that, but that still doesn't seem to affect what the Assassin would need. It really just seems to make more sense that the Assassin would be the kind ready for anything, prepared for the unknown, and preparing spells goes completely against this. Its impossible to predict what one might need, and so the best idea would be to have everything ready just in case. So...with that, at least, sponatenous casting makes a lot more sense, as that gives more of an ability to react to whatever comes up.

I guess now we're just into a difference in how we view the class. I see the assassin class (as written in 3.0/3.5) as a scheming, methodical plotter. I like the idea that he very carefully selects his spells in advance as appropriate for the target and the mission--which he's already thoroughly researched and spied upon, of course. Drawing on both his innate cunning and his prior experience, he calculates which spells will best serve him on this particular job, and prepares accordingly.

To use a metaphor... I like the idea that James Bond is assigned gadgets that seem appropriate to the mission, and has to find ways to make them work if things don't go as planned. It would be much less fun if he had access to everything Q-Branch had ever designed, all at once, as needed.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

A PrC's lameness depends largely on personal preference, campaign style, and how well the PrC works between the two.

One thing I don't like is a prestige class that isn't worth anyone's while to take past a certain level. Usually, these are too front-loaded, or the abilities gained at later levels aren't worth the opportunity cost (like taking the levels to get there), though the latter is a bit more subjective.

I do wonder why Dungeon Delver (which, in my copy of Complete Adventurer, gets a few spell-like abilities, not spells) gets a really limited version of Blindsense at minimum CL 12, while the Scout gets unlimited use of it at 10th level.

Brad

 

[BryonD]

you know, Patryn, your consistently condescending demeanor on these boards makes me wish that I could reach through my computer monitor and choke you into unconsciousness. Be glad that I can't.

As crass (and lame) as this statement may be, I can not help but find great humor in a guy going by the name "ForceUser" lamenting his inability to choke someone at a distance.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Rangers get magic because of Tolkein; Aragorn used healing abilities, and he was a ranger, ergo rangers get healing. Yes, I know he had healing abilities because he was a true king or whatever

Probably a case of race - or bloodline or whatever - rather than class (in D&D terminology). Rangers, as they are now, are just a D&Dism (AFAIK).


edit --- also:

all PrC's have jumped the shark

(emphasis mine)

wuh, an' muh, an' huh?

 

[Mouseferatu]

My default assassin (highly trained killer assassin, not "guy with a sword I gave a few gold to ambush my rival" assassin) is the Practical Ones from Libram Equitis.

Assuming that's Open Content, is there a link you might provide to a description of the class? Or could you provide a bare-bones overview here? I'm always on the lookout for solid assassin-oriented classes (base and PrC both).

 

[wingsandsword]

I do wonder why Dungeon Delver (which, in my copy of Complete Adventurer, gets a few spell-like abilities, not spells) gets a really limited version of Blindsense at minimum CL 12, while the Scout gets unlimited use of it at 10th level.

That's because Scout is hideously overpowered.

But about Assassin spells, once you realize their spell list is all about stealth, shadows, death and silence, it makes sense. They don't just happen to get a few levels of Wizard or Sorcerer casting. I explained it to others as being like mythical "ninja magic", they can draw upon dark powers and shadows to help them kill. It makes Assassin really useful as a "Ninja" class in an oriental setting, and given the high-magic power level of typical D&D, trained and elite members of an assassins guild who have access to small amounts of shadow/death magic to help them along does fit (about as much as the Paladin's PokeMount at least).

Also, for replacing the spellcasting on classes that only get 1-4 level spells (Paladin, Ranger and Assassin), I"ve found that giving them a bonus feat (from any feat they qualify for) is usually an acceptable substitute if you want a nonmagical version. Yeah, it's not RAW by a long shot, but it's worked fine for me in the past.