"Lawful" Bards

[devilish]

Argh!!!!

There ... that's out of the way.

I'm converting someone's 3.0 module to 3.5. In the 3.0 module, there's a wererat bard.
This was kind of ok in 3.0 because alignment in Lycanthropes was listed as
"Any/ See Example" and the example had "Wererat: Alignment: Always Lawful Evil."
but it was an example.

In 3.5, Wererats are "Always Lawful Evil" and Bards are "Any non-Lawful."

I'd like to upgrade said bard RAW : SRD RAW I think is impossible
unless you claim "non-bard" levels, but I can't since this character was
lycanthrope at birth. Are there any Lawful Bards in Complete Adventurer?
In another supplement? Anywhere where I could still follow the rules?

Thanks in advance!
-D

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Note that lycanthrope "alignment" is not quite cut-and-dried:

Alignment: Any. Noble creatures such as bears, eagles, and lions tend to produce good-aligned lycanthropes. Sinister creatures such as rats, snakes, and wolves tend to produce evil-aligned lycanthropes. This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself, so the alignment of the animal form can be arbitrarily assigned.

EDIT:

Also, Complete Adventurer includes a feat that allows you to stack (and take levels in) both Bard and Paladin at the same time (effectively easing both the multiclassing restrictions of the Paladin and the alignment restriction of the Bard). Won't quite help you here, however.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that lycanthrope "alignment" is not quite cut-and-dried:

Neither is 'Always Lawful Evil', but I'm away from my MM and don't have access to the 'Always doesn't mean Always' quote.

-Hyp.

 

[Jdvn1]

It's possible for characters to change alignment. That's how I'm making this Bbn/Pal build.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's possible for characters to change alignment. That's how I'm making this Bbn/Pal build.

Though losing Rage hurts.

-Hyp.

 

[devilish]

Are you guys sure? I have to wait to get home to get to my books.

"Usually Lawful Evil" has the wiggle room to alter alignments but I
though "Always Lawful Evil" was permanent and never can change.

And I thought the "Alignment: Any" was the text in 3.0 but couldn't
find it in 3.5 --- don't have the books but will check.

Jdvn1: Completely agree, yet I'm trying to retro- a born-as-wererat NPC
into a bard : RAW, at least - I know I could just force it.

The born-as combined with the "always LE" makes his alignment fixed, so
he could never have taken classes as bard (other way around IS possible,
started out as bard, became lycanthrope , now is "ex-bard" which means
cannot gain more levels in bard but still has existing abilities.)

Thanks!
-D

 

[Jdvn1]

Though losing Rage hurts.

Yeah, but I only took one or two levels in Bbn. It's not as big a loss because he's predominantly Paladin.

 

[Jdvn1]

"Usually Lawful Evil" has the wiggle room to alter alignments but I
though "Always Lawful Evil" was permanent and never can change.

And I thought the "Alignment: Any" was the text in 3.0 but couldn't
find it in 3.5 --- don't have the books but will check.

Jdvn1: Completely agree, yet I'm trying to retro- a born-as-wererat NPC
into a bard : RAW, at least - I know I could just force it.

The born-as combined with the "always LE" makes his alignment fixed, so
he could never have taken classes as bard (other way around IS possible,
started out as bard, became lycanthrope , now is "ex-bard" which means
cannot gain more levels in bard but still has existing abilities.)

Doesn't BoED have rules to redeem characters? Alignment change included?

I think there's always room for some wiggle, "Always" just has less.

 

[Darkness]

I though "Always Lawful Evil" was permanent and never can change.

Check "Alignment," 3.5 MM, p. 305. Even a balor can potentially change. It's just very unlikely.

 

[Jdvn1]

Wouldn't that change the balor's type? Y'know, he'd go from "Large Outside (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil)" to something like, "Large Outside (Lawful, Extraplanar, Good)" or something?