Lawful Stupid Rears its Ugly Head... Again

[Lalato]

I see that there are varying opinions on the scene I presented above. Let me add a little more detail to the scene.

1. It was definitely an evil foe (a Dwarf involved in a plot central to our current campaign). The foe was not dead... though he was unconscious. He had been stabilized so we could deliver him to the proper authorities.

2. This was the first time the Rogue had ever done anything like this in front of the Paladin.

3. The evil foe had knocked my Soulknife unconscious in that battle so I don't think my character actually saw the event... though the mood was rather testy after my character regained consciousness.

4. We're playing in Eberron... and it's a Paladin of the Silver Flame. Though, I agree that there might have been cultural reasons in another campaign setting... I know of none for this particular one. If someone out there knows differently... do tell.

5. After my Soulknife was healed sufficiently to travel, we took our unconscious captive to the authorities (against the protestations of the Rogue)... and that's where the session ended.

I hope that fills in any holes I may have left open before...

 

[Voadam]

Uhm... since when was looting the bodies considered a Paladin Code offense?

OK... a little background... Rogue searches the body and finds a purse, opens it to see what's inside and puts it in his pocket. All the while the Paladin was standing nearby. Would the Paladin seeing this automatically assume the worst of the Rogue and therefore according to code no longer associate with the Rogue? Or is looting the bodies now considered stepping over the line?

Thanks for any input... (I play the LG Soulknife that is trying to coax the Rogue into using his powers for Awesome!)

--sam

Is looting bodies an evil act that would revoke a paladin's powers? No IMO.

Is it a gross violation of the code? Again IMO no (act with honor is the most relevant provision though).

Does it make the rogue a known evil person the paladin can't associate with? No.

No paladin specific problems with looting. This paladin might have problems with looting, but that is a character and not a class issue.

 

[Arnwyn]

Uhm... since when was looting the bodies considered a Paladin Code offense?

Since whenever the DM said it was, based on the campaign world, or the player said it was, based on how he envisions his character.

 

[Ozmar]

Uhm... since when was looting the bodies considered a Paladin Code offense?

OK... a little background... Rogue searches the body and finds a purse, opens it to see what's inside and puts it in his pocket. All the while the Paladin was standing nearby. Would the Paladin seeing this automatically assume the worst of the Rogue and therefore according to code no longer associate with the Rogue? Or is looting the bodies now considered stepping over the line?

Thanks for any input... (I play the LG Soulknife that is trying to coax the Rogue into using his powers for Awesome!)

--sam

Short answer: No. A paladin who gets his plate armor in a twist over the rogue (or anyone) looting a body is just being a pain. (And it should be noted that being a pain to your party companions is generally against a LG code. Paladins ought to be giving their companions the benefit of the doubt.)

Long answer: We would have to know the full context of the situation to judge. Is "the body" the body of a human woman you just stumbled across in the city? Or is it the body of a goblin you just whacked in the dungeon. Looting the woman's body is a bit cold (but then, maybe he found some useful evidence and is keeping it safe for later investigation). But looting the goblin is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). Is the rogue possibly violating party treasure sharing principles by attempting to pocket it for himself? Does the rogue have a history of greedy behavior? Is he evil? (Use your paladin abilities. If he doesn't detect as evil, give him every benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.) A paladin should NEVER automatically assume the worst of a situation, especially of the actions of a traveling companion. Even if the rogue stabbed him in the back, the paladin should subdue him on the theory that maybe he's dominated by an unknown vampire enemy or something. Paladins should always strive to bring the party together to fight evil, and shouldn't be overly concerned with policing their own companions. (Although, if their companions ARE evil, then he's got to do something.) There is more than enough real evil in the game that needs smiting that a paladin doesn't need to slap wrists over every looted body.

Ozmar the Paladin

 

[Lalato]

Since whenever the DM said it was, based on the campaign world, or the player said it was, based on how he envisions his character.

Unfortunately, nothing of the sort was stated by either DM or player.

 

[Ozmar]

I see that there are varying opinions on the scene I presented above. Let me add a little more detail to the scene.

1. It was definitely an evil foe (a Dwarf involved in a plot central to our current campaign). The foe was not dead... though he was unconscious. He had been stabilized so we could deliver him to the proper authorities.

That's all fine and dandy then. You want to loot your evil foe. Especially since he may have a potion of escape ropes or something in his pocket.

2. This was the first time the Rogue had ever done anything like this in front of the Paladin.

It was the first time he looted a body? What has he been doing with previous defeated foes? Or this was the first time he "concealed" the looting by stuffing the loot in his pockets? I gather that the paladin thought that he saw the rogue trying to hide his looting from the party. Otherwise, why would this even be an issue. If that's the case, then I would expect the paladin to confront him, although, being the high-CHA good guy that he is, I'd expect that he would take the rogue aside and confront him privately first, rather than accusing him outright. After all (again, you would think he'd assume the best of his companions) the rogue may have good reasons for it, or maybe the paladin misinterpreted what he saw. At least he might confront the rogue in a way that lets him know that such actions are not welcome in the future, and that the paladin is watching.

4. We're playing in Eberron... and it's a Paladin of the Silver Flame. Though, I agree that there might have been cultural reasons in another campaign setting... I know of none for this particular one. If someone out there knows differently... do tell.

No cultural taboos that I am aware of, although I gather that the Silver Flame is generally more strict and unforgiving than some other churches, so perhaps this particular paladin is more Lawful than Good? He may have a desire to keep the rogue under control, or to evict him from the group, and is using the provocation to make an issue. That's not ideal LG paladin behavior, IMO, but it might be perfectly in character for this particular paladin.

5. After my Soulknife was healed sufficiently to travel, we took our unconscious captive to the authorities (against the protestations of the Rogue)... and that's where the session ended.

I hope that fills in any holes I may have left open before...

Not all holes, but it helps.

Ozmar the Helpful

 

[Doug McCrae]

You have to be able to loot the bodies, it's a D&D staple. Screw real world culture, we're talking D&D culture here.

 

[Arnwyn]

Unfortunately, nothing of the sort was stated by either DM or player.

Then I guess that's what you should be doing, instead of asking about it in some online forum where people haven't a clue about the details of that specific campaign and the player and DM involved.

I've discovered long ago that simply asking "why" to the person you're curious about makes a lot things become very, very clear.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Leaving the body of an evil foe unchecked for potentially dangerous items that might harm others ( or ressurect the evil dude! ) is not a very smart ( or good ) thing to do. Good or Evil can be defined by intent. Greed or envy is very rarely evil in and of itself, but it is the actions of the individual based on those emotions that define evil. Slaying a person soley for the purpose of obtaining a magic sword could be evil.

-Rhetoric Bob

 

[Kast]

Looting a fallen foe for personal gain is probably wrong or at least questionable from a moral point of view, but it's not evil.