Let's Talk About Metacurrency

[Umbran]

I read it over, because I love Marvel, but all the stuff you mentioned took the game too far away from Sim for me to enjoy it. Even though I'm ok with genre emulation in supers games, MHR took those narrativist mechanics too far for my comfort.

Problem: Superhero universes do not generally operate under consistent physical principles to simulate. Comics, as a form of modern mythology, operate as they do because certain narrative conceits are applied - simulating such a universe would generally call for including mechanics related to those narrative conceits.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I dunno how anyone can consider any super hero anything to be 'too narrative'. Considering comic books are kinda the defining factor of "rule of cool who cares about reality"

As well, the thing to consider about Cortex is that is its one of the only games where its metacurency is also diegetic - especially in Exalted.

It is far more than just 'i do better stuff, and gm get points do better stuff' - it also represents the in-game flow of Qi/Mana/Quintessence/Power and has real game narrative consequences.

Characters have powers for reasons that make sense in the setting. Most of the time, those powers work in ways that fit some kind of setting logic, even if abstracted. Otherwise, the world is usually analogous to our world, to maintain some grounding.

As far as MHR goes, what in-game flow does it use to represent it's meta-currency, that isn't purely story-based?

 

[Micah Sweet]

If a poker player used his supply of chips to bluff a win out of a poor hand, would you accuse them of not taking the loss they "should have" had based on the cards handed to them? Or would you say they knew how to play the game well? Probably the latter.

If a D&D player just happened to have a spell slot, such that they could cast the right spell at a critical moment, and they snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, would you argue that they aren't accepting the bitter along with the sweet?

No, you probably would not. They just used an agreed-upon resource well.

Our game participants are not expected to "take the bitter" if they still have resources to spend to avoid it!

Meta-currencies are not somehow different. They are just resources.

They are resources whose source is outside the setting. That is quite different, at least to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Problem: Superhero universes do not generally operate under consistent physical principles to simulate. Comics, as a form of modern mythology, operate as they do because certain narrative conceits are applied - simulating such a universe would generally call for including mechanics related to those narrative conceits.

Like I said, I feel genre emulation is important for supers games (an exception to my general rule). How it was handled in Marvel Heroic, however, was a bridge too far along the narrative path for me. It's a spectrum, not a binary.

 

[Reynard]

If a poker player used his supply of chips to bluff a win out of a poor hand, would you accuse them of not taking the loss they "should have" had based on the cards handed to them? Or would you say they knew how to play the game well? Probably the latter.

If a D&D player just happened to have a spell slot, such that they could cast the right spell at a critical moment, and they snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, would you argue that they aren't accepting the bitter along with the sweet?

No, you probably would not. They just used an agreed-upon resource well.

Our game participants are not expected to "take the bitter" if they still have resources to spend to avoid it!

Meta-currencies are not somehow different. They are just resources.

You don't have to convince me. I already said I like metacurrency.

 

[the Jester]

I skimmed the first couple of pages, so maybe I missed it or it was addressed later, but can you define your terms here? What do you mean by metacurrency?

 

[Reynard]

I skimmed the first couple of pages, so maybe I missed it or it was addressed later, but can you define your terms here? What do you mean by metacurrency?

Up thread I added:

I do think it is probably worth differentiating some of the broad categories of metacurrency: currency that lets the player alter the outcome of rolls or at least their probable outcomes; currency that gives players some sort of authorial control (like cart full of straw); currency used to power abilities or other features; and then any or all of those, but in the GM's hands.

So there are different ypes. And, of course, folks have different definitions. But broadly "metacurrency" refers to a resource that the PLAYER has access to, with which they can impact the game outside of their characters' direct actions. This can be like Inspiration from 5E, or Bennies from Savage Worlds.

 

[Umbran]

You don't have to convince me. I already said I like metacurrency.

That we both like it doesn't mean I feel you represented it well as a concept.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

Characters have powers for reasons that make sense in the setting. Most of the time, those powers work in ways that fit some kind of setting logic, even if abstracted. Otherwise, the world is usually analogous to our world, to maintain some grounding.

This is not even remotely true....like not even close. From series to series, sometimes even from comic to comic, we see the Hulk or Wolverine vary in what they can accomplish or suffer. Some vary quite a bit more, like Shadowcat or Gambit... its messy, and MHR mirrors that perfectly.

But in truth that statement is missing the entire point of supers games, terribly so!

The way that MHR works is to do what do other system can - allow Spiderman to fight the Hulk or Wolverine to fight Galactus. It handles the way comics work - narrative IS the driving force 100% of the time, not any sort of real work physics. I can explain Cortex for folks if they are unfamiliar....

As far as MHR goes, what in-game flow does it use to represent it's meta-currency, that isn't purely story-based?

Depends on the character. The metacurreny is same game regardless, for ease of player reference. But for Wolverine its willpower, for Dr. Strange is sorcery energy, for Cable its bullets/gadgets etc.

The meta in meta currency means we are not making every page use a different word. But the function is purposeful within context the setting, as I pointed out above.

 

[soviet]

They are resources whose source is outside the setting. That is quite different, at least to me.

I think we had this conversation quite recently, but a lot of metacurrencies are not things outside the setting. They are things within it such as willpower, luck, magic, or force points. I accept that the representation of those things may not be fully simulative though - the character doesn't have the knowledge or control over it in-setting that the player does in-play.