D&D 5E Let's talk power words!

[CapnZapp]

Which is why I think it is hilarious that people insist on keeping players in the dark about game information like this - they are effectively going "If this spell requires guess work, then it sucks. I know what I'll do! I'll insist it requires guess work even though nothing in the book actually encourages me to do so, and then I'll go tell everyone how much the spell sucks and should be avoided - and as a bonus, I'll also blame it on the writing of the game that it sucks instead of being self-aware about the consequences of my own choices."

I don't know where you're going with this.

I hope you don't think you're helping your "it's fine" argument by saying "of course the spell should fizzle now and then"...

 

[CapnZapp]

Don't think of it as a "I win" spell. Think of it as a "I do 100 hp damage for sure" spell. The utility of that doesn't really depend on CR.

It's not amazeballs. Doing plain damage is often not the best use of a caster's time. But it can be a useful option, and the amount of damage is, IMO, in line with what you should expect.

Since nobody forces me to use this spell, sure.

Doesn't mean you're presenting a compelling argument why the spell deserves to fight for your L9 slot.

Then again, maybe you weren't trying to.

Ps. Of course HP is related to CR. Ds.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I don't know where you're going with this.

I hope you don't think you're helping your "it's fine" argument by saying "of course the spell should fizzle now and then"...

You likely don't know where I was going with that because you, and I really don't know how you did it, confused a thing I was describing as being hilarious to me when people do it as me saying saying I do that thing.

 

[dave2008]

I wasn't going to comment on this necro-thread. But then it got some more traction. After skimming through it, it seems raising the HP threshold is the simple solution, with perhaps a secondary effect. Maybe:

Power Word Kill
Enchantment

Level: 9
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 90 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous \

You utter a word of power that can compel one creature you can see within range to die instantly. If the creature you chose has 150 hit points or fewer, it dies. If the creature has 150-250 hit points it is stunned until the end of the creature's next turn. If the creature is reduced to 150 hit points or fewer before the end of its next turn, it dies. If the creature as over 250 hit points, the spell has no effect.

 

[CapnZapp]

If the creature you chose has 150 hit points or fewer, it dies. If the creature has 150-250 hit points it is stunned until the end of the creature's next turn.

As a way to make this spell more competitive from a player's POV, this has some merit.

But again, no such effort can be considered complete without offering a designer's comment on how this affects mid- to high-level gameplay in any campaign where the DM gives access to the spell to NPC/monster casters.

In short: these changes mean that the PCs will never "outgrow" the effect.

If you're fine with that, i.e. your fighter hero still being defenseless against the spell even at level 20, then okay. But I would like to ask every tweak designer to state this explicitly so we know they haven't just forgotten about the other side of the coin - when the spell is used against the party.

Why am I obsessing over this? Because I'm not actually sure the spell needs improving. I'm actually fine with PWK being essentially an evil-NPC type of spell, especially considering there is no cheating going on (favoring evil NPCs over goody PCs) - just exploiting the good old hit point discrepancy: the fact that each hit point of "hero" packs much more punch than a hit point of "monster"!

Edit: riffing off your invention, maybe all is needed is to ensure the spell isn't wasted by stupid minutae such as the victim having 101 hp:

If the creature is reduced to 100 hit points or fewer before the end of its next turn, it dies.​

This ensures the spell won't go to waste. If it doesn't die instantly, you and your friends have a whole round to shave off those niggling points that you miscalculated. Then the spell accomplishes its mission - even if it is the druid that plinks in 7 damage, that is still satisfactory if the BBEG had 106 hp when you cast the spell.

If the creature is reduced to 150 hit points or fewer before the end of its next turn, it dies.

I see what you're trying to do, but from a 5E POV this is cludgey. Feedback: I would phrase this differently, combining the two ways of dying into one effect. Perhaps something like:

Your word of power sets up a vibration within the target, lasting until the end of its next turn. If the target is currently having, or is reduced to, 150 hit points or below at any moment during the duration, it is instantly slain.

 

[Eric V]

Ok, so I am genuinely curious as to how you guys run things.

1) Do you, as a rule, let the players know the hp of the monsters? I suppose it doesn't say they can't know anywhere in the books, but that's a weak argument; it also doesn't say the PCs can't do a LOT of things. Is there anyone who hates "gamist" type mechanics but who allows HP knowledge for purposes like the PW spell? How do you reconcile that?

2) Do you, as a rule, let the players know how high a monster's save is, or if it has magic resistance? Seems to me that, while not exactly the same as letting players know hp totals, it's definitely on the same spectrum, because it's to prevent a spell just "fizzling."

For myself, the answers are no and no, but maybe I've been doing it wrong?

 

[CapnZapp]

It would be nice if the spell was designed in such a way it's utility did not depend on things left undefined by the game, such as how you handle hp totals.

Giving you a whole round to achieve the spell's condition "100 hp or less" would greatly (if not completely) achieve exactly that.

 

[CapnZapp]

Ok, so I am genuinely curious as to how you guys run things.

Personally I only distinguish between "bloodied" and not bloodied. (And downed and dead, obviously)

It's a term I borrowed from 4E: you're bloodied when at 50% hp or less.

Players are encouraged to not reveal exactly how many hp they have left; instead saying things like "I desperately need healing, heavily blooded here".

Next question: when the party encounters a new monster, they each make a "monster knowledge roll"; a skill check with a DC of 10 + (CR / 3). The skill varies with the monster, using History for humanoids, Nature for beasts and plants, Religion for angels, undead et cetera.

Your degree of success determines what info you gain; possibly including specific game mechanics such as resistances and unexpectedly high saves and such.

 

[jaelis]

Ok, so I am genuinely curious as to how you guys run things.

1) Do you, as a rule, let the players know the hp of the monsters? I suppose it doesn't say they can't know anywhere in the books, but that's a weak argument; it also doesn't say the PCs can't do a LOT of things. Is there anyone who hates "gamist" type mechanics but who allows HP knowledge for purposes like the PW spell? How do you reconcile that?

2) Do you, as a rule, let the players know how high a monster's save is, or if it has magic resistance? Seems to me that, while not exactly the same as letting players know hp totals, it's definitely on the same spectrum, because it's to prevent a spell just "fizzling."

For myself, the answers are no and no, but maybe I've been doing it wrong?

I don't generally. But I will make an exception regarding hp for PW.

I do the same for sleep. IE: "Does it look like these creatures would be affected by a sleep spell? Yes, there's a reasonable chance you could affect a few."

I like hp limits for spells, I think it is a useful mechanic. But I don't like it to be a 'gotcha' for players.

Regarding saves, usually a creature has perceivable cues as to what saves it is likely to be particularly good at.

 

[SkidAce]

I wasn't going to comment on this necro-thread. But then it got some more traction. After skimming through it, it seems raising the HP threshold is the simple solution, with perhaps a secondary effect. Maybe:

I went with 200. That seemed to be the point at which an uninjured creatures with 201 points surviving seemed about right. Using a CR list sorted by hp.

Its arbitrary, but the list of creatures above the line fits my idea of shaking off an instant kill.