D&D 5E Let's talk power words!

[Gadget]

Don't think of it as a "I win" spell. Think of it as a "I do 100 hp damage for sure" spell. The utility of that doesn't really depend on CR.

It's not amazeballs. Doing plain damage is often not the best use of a caster's time. But it can be a useful option, and the amount of damage is, IMO, in line with what you should expect.

Thanks, but I'm thinking of it as "is this worth my one ninth level slot of the day" spell. I get that it should not be an automatic "I win", and it would be fantastic if it actually did '100hp of damage for sure'; it's the whole 'no effect if the target has more than 100 hp' that seems to be a pretty big draw back. It would be great if the target took a similar amount of damage even if they were over the limit, perhaps a save. At the level it comes on line, where even the 'mooks' may have more than 100 hp, it seems pretty high on the niche scale.

That said, I have not played at those levels yet, so I will take your word for it if you have seen good usage for it.

 

[CapnZapp]

Fair enough. But even so, has anyone done a breakdown on how many of what CR the spell will affect? I get that you have to whittle down the HP for same CR foes (iirc a moderate challenge?), but at what CR does it just stop being effective without some (or significant) whittling? CR8, CR9, CR10, 11? higher? I mean, HP totals will vary, of course, but it would be nice if it had some effect for those (many) foes a player is likely to face that are unlikely to to be vulnerable without a lot of set up and effort for your one ninth level slot of the day.

The thing is, a level 17 character don't need PWK to deal a hundred damage.

The number of cases where you absolutely must deal exactly 100+ damage are very few. It's not a pro. It's a con.

In 99% of the cases, you simply deal as much damage as you can. Or wait for the next fighter in initiative order.

Under no circumstance is this spell worth your attention.

But it doesn't have to. As I have said before, if you're an CR 12 Archmage fighting L9 heroes, it's very good. Excellent even.

Even high-CR enemy casters can find a use for it. Yes, even if the monster is fighting exactly the level 17 heroes I just said should avoid the spell.

Why? Because monsters in general have much more hit points than heroes.

After even one of your bruisers have managed to get in a solid hit on the party caster, he's toast if you target him with TPK. Getting rid of possibly the game's most dangerous being (a high level player character full spellcaster) is excellent utility.

But let's not get overworked about this. I said "find a use of". Not "excellent".

For the spell to be excellent, and truly worth 1) a level 9 slot and 2) its space in the PHB, you really need to consider using it against PCs that never had a hundred hp in the first place.

This is because of the thing I haven't mentioned, but many of you have: the uncertainty. If you even blow PWK on someone with 101 hp once, it's enough to make the spell suck harder than a <bleep> <bleep> on <bleep>.

 

[jaelis]

Indeed my opinion that the spells are ok is definitely contingent on the dm telling you whether the targets hp are low enough.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Indeed my opinion that the spells are ok is definitely contingent on the dm telling you whether the targets hp are low enough.

That's no problem - other people's opinions of the spell are definitely contingent on the player not knowing a target is susceptible, and numerous other assumptions (some of which, like talking about the effect of power word kill as if it is effectively the same as dealing 100 damage, are flawed) that have constructed their particular view of what a "normal" test condition for the spell would look like.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

... If you even blow PWK on someone with 101 hp once, it's enough to make the spell suck harder than a <bleep> <bleep> on <bleep>.

Which is why I think it is hilarious that people insist on keeping players in the dark about game information like this - they are effectively going "If this spell requires guess work, then it sucks. I know what I'll do! I'll insist it requires guess work even though nothing in the book actually encourages me to do so, and then I'll go tell everyone how much the spell sucks and should be avoided - and as a bonus, I'll also blame it on the writing of the game that it sucks instead of being self-aware about the consequences of my own choices."

 

[SkidAce]

Don't think of it as a "I win" spell. Think of it as a "I do 100 hp damage for sure" spell. The utility of that doesn't really depend on CR.

Mechanically, and balance wise I mostly understand.

But it still doesn't feel right. Its Power Word Kill, not Power Word Massive Damage.

I'd be "okay" with a save (maybe) cause, sure....uber creatures shrugging off your Power Word Kill makes them uber and legendary.

But I'm stuck on the cant KILL a CR 5 Gladiator.

Oh well....no worries.

 

[Eric V]

Do you guys normally let your players know how many hp the monsters have? Like, is that a standard rule?

Or is it something specific to the PW spells? Do you believe there's a divination component to the spell that tells you if it'll be effective or something?

AFAICT, specific monster hp is NOT knowledge that players should have, just like that. If a spell needs the player to have that knowledge all of a sudden, maybe that's a cue that the spell isn't great, RAW?

I don't get to know the creature's DEX save before I cast disintegrate, after all...

 

[Eric V]

Don't think of it as a "I win" spell. Think of it as a "I do 100 hp damage for sure" spell. The utility of that doesn't really depend on CR.

With respect, that's NOT what the spell does. It kills someone with 100 hp or less but does nothing otherwise. It doesn't do 100 damage, and certainly not for sure. If you play with the rules as is, you could very easily end up doing no damage...

It's a great NPC spell, but I don't use it as a DM since it feels like cheating (as the DM I know the PCs hp totals, but they don't know the monsters').

 

[Spohedus]

I wish the spells worked like this.

PWK: If a creature has less than 100 hp, it dies. If it has more than 100 hp, it suffers 100 hp of necrotic damage, or 50 hp if it makes its ST.

PWS: If a creature has less than 150 hp, it is stunned. If it has more than 150 hp, it is slowed.

 

[jaelis]

With respect, that's NOT what the spell does. It kills someone with 100 hp or less but does nothing otherwise. It doesn't do 100 damage, and certainly not for sure. If you play with the rules as is, you could very easily end up doing no damage...

It's a great NPC spell, but I don't use it as a DM since it feels like cheating (as the DM I know the PCs hp totals, but they don't know the monsters').

If you only ever cast it on a creature with < 100 hp, then it is pretty similar to a spell that does 100 hp damage.

If you don’t get to know when a creature has less than 100 hp, then it is not a good spell IMO. Doesn’t mean you have to play it that way, do what works for your table. Don’t believe the rules say either way.