D&D 5E Level 20 How?

[Sword of Spirit]

The difficulty is in finding bad guys that can reasonably exist in such numbers and at such power levels. As always, heading to the Planes is probably your best bet; a sudden infestation of 80 Frost Giants in your Material Plane setting rather begs the question of why they didn't conquer the whole kingdom back when the PCs were level 1!

Thank you for bring up this point--I was just about to do it myself.

Sometimes I hear stories of the kind of encounters people have at high levels and think, "how is it even fun to play in a world with that much strain to suspension of disbelief?"

To me it most definitely isn't. I barely put up with it in D&D computer games where suddenly the world is infested with super-high powered monsters that exist in sufficient numbers to challenge the PCs, but just make the world seem like it has become absurd.

There actually is a solution in 5e, and you can get it right out of the monster manual--Planar adventures.

Read the roles that the various devils or demons have in their societies. If the MM isn't sufficient, do some online Planescape research.

They literally have armies of creatures with a range of CRs. Instead of dozens of CR 1/2 orcs with some CR 2 leaders and a CR 6 big boss (just throwing in CRs without looking it up), you have dozens upon dozens of "mooks" with CRs of 3-5 led by a good number of leaders of CR 6-9 with some strike forces composed of those leader types, auxiliary behemoths and lieutenants of double digit CRs, and some leaders with CRs near 20. And instead of creating absurd scenarios to get there, you are making an army that actually follows the descriptions given!

Heck, in reality, it's harder to justify running into just one CR 5 fiend out on the planes! So the game does have a built in support for standard D&D combats at high-level, you just have to think outside the Material Plane.

 

[dave2008]

Worms huh. How about this. Something I have been working on.

Sandworm​

Colossal Monstrosity Unaligned
Armor Class 26
Hit Points 820 (40d20+ 400
Speed 40 ft Burrow (Sand) 40’

Str 30 (+10), Dex 20 (+0), Con 30 (+4), Int 3 (-4), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 11 (+0)
Saving Throws Dex +10 Str +16, Con +16 Int +2 Wis +6 Cha +6
Skills Athletics+22 (expertise)
Damage Immunities fire, lightning, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing weapons that are not magical
Damage Resistances All except poison and psychic damage.
Condition Immunities charmed, frightened, paralyzed, petrified.
Senses Blindsight 120’, passive perception 16
Languages –
Challenge 30 (155 000)
Legendary Resistance (3/day).If the Sandworm fails a save it can chose to succeed instead.

Spell Immunity: Sandworms are immune to level 1-9 spells

Magic Weapons: The Sandworm weapon attacks are magical

Emergence When a Sandworm first emerges from the sand lightning bolts strike all beings within 50’. Each bolt deals 6d10 lightning damage to each target. A DC 20 dexterity save reduces the damage by half

Actions.
Attack. The Sandworm makes a bite attacks and a thrashing attack.

Bite: Melee : +19 to hit, reach 15’, all targets within 20’ area. Hit 62 (8d12+10) piercing damage. If the target is a creature it is grappled (escape DC 20). Until this grapple end the targets are restrained and the Sandworm cannot bite more targets.

Thrashing . The Sandworm thrashes its body around crushing everything within 50’. All creatures in that area 20d6 (70) bludgeoning damage. A DC 26 Dexterity save reduces the damage by half.

Swallow The Sandworm makes a bite attack against a gargantuan or smaller creature it is grappling. If the attack hits the targets take the bites damage, the targets are swallowed and the grapple ends. While swallowed, the creature is blinded and restrained and takes 10d6 acid and 10d6 fire damage at the start of the sandworms turn.

If the Sandworm takes 60 or more damage from a creature inside it, the sandworm must succeed on a DC 20 constitution save or regurgitate all swallowed creatures, which fall prone in a space within 10’ of the Sandworm. If the Sandworm dies, a swallowed creature is no longer restrained by it and can escape from the corpse by using 30’ of movement, exiting while prone.

Legendary Actions
The Sandworm can take 3 legendary actions choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action can be used at a time and only at the end of another creatures turn. The Sandworm regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.

Attack. The Sandworm makes a bite attack.

Move. The Sandworm moves up to half its speed.

Chomp (Costs 2 actions)The Sandworm makes one bite attack or swallows.

I like it! I would suggest making it immune to the prone condition as well. You also might want to define what "colossal" is, since it is no longer a size category in 4e or 5e.

 

[Panthanas]

In about 27 years of playing I've only been in one campaign where the characters made it to max level. Went from 1st to 30th in a 4E game. Other than that, any game I've been in usually makes it to 10th to 15th or so.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Not yet in 5E, but I could see it happening. I played in a 3.X campaign that went to level 30 once.

I'd like to see a 5E Epic Level Handbook, though not for levels above 20. In my mind it would flesh out levels 16-20;

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'd like to see a 5E Epic Level Handbook, though not for levels above 20. In my mind it would flesh out levels 16-20;

I think we're gonna see at least an UA article about it. With as many people who have said there are issues that come up in the final tier re: encounter balancing, etc, I think they are going to put out something to address high level play. They sort of did in the DMG, but there seems to be more guidance needed or wanted. I just don't know if you need a full book for that and have it cost effective to make. the only other thing I can see is if the next adventure Path is around the Planes, and part of that addresses high level play is included within it.

 

[Greg Benage]

Our first 5e campaign went from 1-18 over about a year-and-a-half. The game I'm currently running will go to 20 and play there for a few sessions. I play on Roll20 and it's really not a big deal. I agree with Hemlock that it might be trickier (and much less fun for the DM) with paper and pencil on tabletop. I'm using the Old Gray Box FR, and it's not like there's some rule that only NPCs can be really high level. No shortage of challenges.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Heck, in reality, it's harder to justify running into just one CR 5 fiend out on the planes! So the game does have a built in support for standard D&D combats at high-level, you just have to think outside the Material Plane.

Or outside of the same planet, at least. In my case, I decided that purple worms were native to the moon, which is why they didn't randomly rise up to destroy desert caravans.

You could also have a death world, like Athas (or Asgard), where even normal people are way tougher than usual. If your party of level 10 adventurers gets to visit a planet where everyone is at least level 5, then it makes sense how groups of level 13 monsters could live there without making it impossible for a civilization to rise.

 

[Greg Benage]

Sometimes I hear stories of the kind of encounters people have at high levels and think, "how is it even fun to play in a world with that much strain to suspension of disbelief?"

To me it most definitely isn't. I barely put up with it in D&D computer games where suddenly the world is infested with super-high powered monsters that exist in sufficient numbers to challenge the PCs, but just make the world seem like it has become absurd.

It depends on the setting, though. In the Old Gray Box FR, the super-high-powered monsters/villains/organizations are already there from the jump. The dwarves have been depopulated by generations of genocidal war and are on the brink of extinction. The elves have bailed. Civilization is scattered and hanging by a thread, with powerful enemies pressing in from all directions, including below (in the North, at least, which is the focus of the OGB setting). Basically, the North has been circling the drain for a while now, so it's not like all these threats just pop up in time to challenge your high-level PCs.

 

[Zardnaar]

I like it! I would suggest making it immune to the prone condition as well. You also might want to define what "colossal" is, since it is no longer a size category in 4e or 5e.

Good call changed the word document.

 

[Blue]

In AD&D, the game pretty much turned into kingdom-management after level 9. You gained followers and a stronghold, and you ruled the land, expanding your kingdom, stocking your castle, eliminating threats, growing your treasury, etc.

Wow, bringing back memories. While I didn't get anywhere near 20th in 5e yet, we played 1st to Epic (>20) back in AD&D 2ed days. Where it would take a chunk of a year to go up a level and that's playing every Saturday for 8-14 hours.

I guess my "most levels gained" was D'Gatham of Cormyr, a human bard who started at 1st and after 7th (?) dual-classed (not multi-classed, that was for demi-humans only) over to cleric 1 of Milil, the god of song and music. Between advancing at cleric, and also reading +1 level books (DM allowed the books that could advance bard levels would still work, though I needed to keep my cleric level higher) I think I ended up like a 16 bard / 23 cleric or something ridiculous like that.