Level Advancement Rate in 3e

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me

Why? Because a Fire Giant is supposed to be an equal match?

Why, yes. A fire giant is CR 10, after all. And it isn't even one of those broken examples like trolls, planetars, solars or dragons which are notorious for having a CR that's out of whack.

Arbitrary decisions don't validate other arbitrary decisions.

It seems to me that you're after some sort of revealed truth in the D&D ruleset. Unfortunately, enlightenment is not something to be found by staring at the rulebooks.

I know. I've tried.

No, rather that I'm not impressed, but have heard way to often about how the system is fine as is, yet this system is assumptive concerning power levels and thus broken by it's assumption.

What?

The Core Rules are supposed to represent a generic setting,

Point me to the bit in the SRD or the 3 core books that says this.

and thus I simply use it's own standard against it.

I don't know what you're using, but it seems to be pretty strong stuff.

Thank you for proving my point.

You'll have to do better than that.

Shall I add you to the list of irrelevant opinions as well?

Go right ahead; it's not like I haven't seen it before. That's pretty much what this guy does, too.

You've said little to sway me, after all.

Ah, but I am funny, and you are not.

BE! FUNNY!

That'll hold more than the sympathy I'm after, since I'm not after any. I've stated the facts of the matter.

For certain meanings of "fact", anyway.

Rather than refute them intelligently, you've resorted to sarcasm and smartass remarks, which only serves to validate me.

Strangely enough, that's also what this guy says.

Of course, most conversations that turn in this direction end this way. That's why I keep the thimble on-hand.

Ah, so you've had experience with people telling you to
BE! FUNNY!
before?

I might have guessed.

 

[Eryx]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Core Rules are supposed to represent a generic setting,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point me to the bit in the SRD or the 3 core books that says this.

Just reading through the 3 core books it is fairly obvious that they are designed to function as generic. You, the DM, have to bring the campaign setting if you want one.
I don't see how you could read that any other way.

 

[diaglo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me

Why, yes. A fire giant is CR 10, after all. And it isn't even one of those broken examples like trolls, planetars, solars or dragons which are notorious for having a CR that's out of whack.

actually a CR 10 creature should be a challenge for 4 PCs.

 

[hong]

Just reading through the 3 core books it is fairly obvious that they are designed to function as generic. You, the DM, have to bring the campaign setting if you want one.
I don't see how you could read that any other way.

They are designed with a particular setting in mind, namely Greyhawk. More than that, the D&D rules incorporate lots of assumptions as to how magic works (arcane vs divine), the style of gameplay (fast-flowing, abstract combat rather than detailed simulation), the amount of background information (sparse rather than detailed) and so on. You can get other rulesets that emphasise different aspects of gaming (H*rn, for instance, is heavy on the level of background detail, and GURPS is heavy on simulating reality in terms of mechanics).

All of these, are "generic" in terms of not being tied to a particular game world. None of them are generic in terms of being universally suitable to all gaming styles.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me

actually a CR 10 creature should be a challenge for 4 PCs.

A CR 10 creature is an almost-certain _victory_ for 4 PCs (of 10th level). Read up on the definition of CRs.

 

[Eryx]

The sample gods in the PHB, and a couple of the PrC's are more GreyHawk than anything else. But the nature of D&D, even in 3rd edition, is a lot more generic than just a D&D rulebook ready for a GreyHawk camapign.

Does that make sense?

 

[Great Umbrage]

Personally, I never really had much of a problem with fast level advancement, and I don't see the need for a defined time requirement for level advancement.

Of course, since I never ran into the problem...well, it is usually the case that there is some down time between adventures, in game time, where the wizard especially needs to research or to create magic items and spells. Granted, if your characters are always in a dungeon setting, then the passage of time is somewhat irrelevant, but when they need to interact with the world, there are many things that really add up in time.

That's just called pacing. 13 to 14 encounters of similar CR to increase a level is reasonable. Those encounters are usually spaced out somewhat...these are not totally easy battles. In addition, characters often run into lower level encounters, especially as they get to the higher levels, wherein they receive little or no XP. My adventures usually involve about half a dozen encounters of roughly equal CR to the party level, and one or two of a few CR above party level, and the rest a bit below party level. That translates to one level every 1-2 typical adventures, which take up about 2-4 sittings to run through (about 3-5 hours per sitting).

It has taken about 2 years real time to go from 1st- to 20th-level, but in game time, it has been about 20 or so years...a full generation.

 

[Storminator]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3e is too fast for me

Shall I add you to the list of irrelevant opinions as well? You've said little to sway me, after all.

I did. My best day on the forum was when I figured out how to put people on the "Ignore" list, and Hong was my introductory member.

I do think your argument that that CR dictates power is rather flawed. CR ratings themselves are a little suspect, and I typically send higher CRs at my party than baseline, yet the players tend to do quite well anyway. And I'm on the stingy side of treasure (my PBeM has 5 3rd level PCs, with nothing better than a scroll or two and a single MW sword).

I find that the faster XP rate means that by the time I'm bored of fighting orcs I've leveled and it's time to hunt lizardmen.

PS

 

[alsih2o]

However, that was averaging about 20 hours of gaming a week.

now thats what i call a lifestyle

 

[hong]

The sample gods in the PHB, and a couple of the PrC's are more GreyHawk than anything else. But the nature of D&D, even in 3rd edition, is a lot more generic than just a D&D rulebook ready for a GreyHawk camapign.

Does that make sense?

Like I said, 3E is generic in the sense that you can make up a world of your own and run a campaign in it, with no problems. You couldn't do this with, say, Talislanta, Runequest, or Ars Magica.

However, the question that's relevant here isn't how world-dependent the 3E rules are, but how easily they support different play styles out of the box. You can run a grim and gritty, morally ambiguous game if you want, but you'd have to make quite a few tweaks to do so. Similarly, you could run a genre-hopping campaign featuring guns and stuff, but you'd also have to make a few tweaks.

In the case of supporting different rates of advancement, it's trivial to do it, to the point where complaining about advancing too fast is really a non-starter IMO.