Playtest (A5E) Level Up Playtest Document #17: Journeys

Welcome to the 17th Level Up playtest document. This playtest document contains an abbreviated expression of the game’s Journey rules, which form an important part of the exploration pillar of play.

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey


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Steampunkette

Shaper of Worlds
Supporter
8 hours of marching, 8 hours of long rest, the remaining 8 hours are rest stops, meal breaks, regrouping.

You could definitely do 24-32 in that time. And your feet, legs, and back would ACHE from it.

As to the "You're wearing full armor!" argument. Full Armor isn't THAT heavy. Sure if you're wearing a full set of plate armor with associated padding, maille beneath, straps, and such you'd be looking at 30-50 pounds (Depending on style and your specific body structure). But unlike a Backpack, that weight is distributed across your form. Some of it is resting on your hips. Some of it is resting on your shoulders. Some of it is supported by straps squeezing across your torso, or arm, or thigh, breaking up the weight into more manageable pieces.

Because it was -designed- to move and fight in, which meant it couldn't be overbearing in any one aspect, or wear down your energy level too drastically since it'd leave you stranded in the middle of a battlefield if you collapsed from exhaustion.

Though, in all honesty, I would tell my player "You cannot travel overland in heavy armor without significantly losing speed unless you are mounted" And I have done so in the past.

And since heavy armor (and short legs) slow you down in combat, slap the "Slow" speed on anyone wearing heavy armor (or under 4ft in height) for overland travel. Make their "Fast" into unarmored (tall people) normal.

And heavily armored halflings move at a crawl. MUAHAHAHAHAAAA!

I mean... Break it down. The 24 hour a day march is 8 hours of walking. 24/8=3. Can you walk 3 miles in an hour and still have time to take a quick potty break, snag a cup of water, and get a few minutes of rest before doing it again? Then you can get 24 miles in 8 hours.

If you can manage an 18 minute mile you're capable of a 3 mile per hour speed with 6 minutes of faffing about and making no progress. If you can do one in 15 that gives you 15 minutes of faffing about. And if you walk a 12 minute mile, that's a whopping 24 minutes of just chilling with your friends on the trail.

24 miles in a day is very reasonable.
 

chaoshead87

Explorer
I like this quite a bit. I REALLY like the use of the massive bonuses that 5e has, by granting extra money earned in the busking activity for example. I also like that there are examples of increased success on skill checks with a critical result, a second rumor on the gossip activity.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Getting away from the marching speed debate I really like the doc but notice an omission in havens.
"For example, an inn is considered a haven, but a campsite where adventurers must take turns keeping watch through the night is not. " The bates motel is an inn & any number of factors could make an inn not restful. Adding a word like safe or proper might clear that very minor not marching speed issue :D

On Stealth & Vehicles, it says "stealth can not be used while journeying in a land vehicle" neatly shows a generally not well supported flavor of stealth that the skills could somehow handle elsewhere. Namely looking like you belong & faking it through social engineering. A stereotypical fleeing from the law type situation could carefully stealth though forests & such to avoid the well patrolled roads or they could buy that mule, wagon, & all of that farmer's produce to leisurely make their way across the border out of this wartorn kingdom disguised as farmers who intend to sell all of that produce covering their deadly weapons & nice shiny armor from prying eyes :D


Supplies & havens are an awesome thing but having the various journey activities folded into the journey rule rather than some isolated peg the GM can try to fit in is pretty awesome. I really like that there are examples of typical PC behavior like entertaining/thieving/etc & even better that casters aren't left out with that option to gather components. The inclusion of exotic terrains and a road(!!) in regions is a godsend too, it's funny how the focus on FR style makes people forget that travelingthrough a forest is very different from traveling through a forest with a road :D


"the important thing to keep in mind is that exploration challenges are designed to be very freeform, and that the solutions suggested are only suggestions. Creative player solutions or expenditure of resources should be rewarded" That makes me want to dance & I can't wait to see it. Just trying to get players to the point of looking outside their box & consider those kinds of things in o5e is really tough compared to past editions with more tools & guidance aimed at those kinds of goals but the payoffs are huge for everyone at the table :D
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
On Stealth & Vehicles, it says "stealth can not be used while journeying in a land vehicle" neatly shows a generally not well supported flavor of stealth that the skills could somehow handle elsewhere. Namely looking like you belong & faking it through social engineering. A stereotypical fleeing from the law type situation could carefully stealth though forests & such to avoid the well patrolled roads or they could buy that mule, wagon, & all of that farmer's produce to leisurely make their way across the border out of this wartorn kingdom disguised as farmers who intend to sell all of that produce covering their deadly weapons & nice shiny armor from prying eyes :D
This paragraph is gold, btw.
 





Faolyn

(she/her)
All right, folks, just assume that most people are going to be traveling at a Slow pace, and only mighty adventurers are going to be going at a Normal pace.
 

Bunker

Hero
I would serious doubt the source that provided you this information.
The source is Vegitius, an expert on Roman military organization who wrote De Re Militari in the 4th century.

"They should march with the common military step twenty miles in five summer-hours, and with the full step, which is quicker, twenty-four miles in the same number of hours."

I trust the source.
 

dave2008

Legend
8 hours of marching, 8 hours of long rest, the remaining 8 hours are rest stops, meal breaks, regrouping.

You could definitely do 24-32 in that time. And your feet, legs, and back would ACHE from it.

As to the "You're wearing full armor!" argument. Full Armor isn't THAT heavy. Sure if you're wearing a full set of plate armor with associated padding, maille beneath, straps, and such you'd be looking at 30-50 pounds (Depending on style and your specific body structure). But unlike a Backpack, that weight is distributed across your form. Some of it is resting on your hips. Some of it is resting on your shoulders. Some of it is supported by straps squeezing across your torso, or arm, or thigh, breaking up the weight into more manageable pieces.

Because it was -designed- to move and fight in, which meant it couldn't be overbearing in any one aspect, or wear down your energy level too drastically since it'd leave you stranded in the middle of a battlefield if you collapsed from exhaustion.

Though, in all honesty, I would tell my player "You cannot travel overland in heavy armor without significantly losing speed unless you are mounted" And I have done so in the past.

And since heavy armor (and short legs) slow you down in combat, slap the "Slow" speed on anyone wearing heavy armor (or under 4ft in height) for overland travel. Make their "Fast" into unarmored (tall people) normal.

And heavily armored halflings move at a crawl. MUAHAHAHAHAAAA!

I mean... Break it down. The 24 hour a day march is 8 hours of walking. 24/8=3. Can you walk 3 miles in an hour and still have time to take a quick potty break, snag a cup of water, and get a few minutes of rest before doing it again? Then you can get 24 miles in 8 hours.

If you can manage an 18 minute mile you're capable of a 3 mile per hour speed with 6 minutes of faffing about and making no progress. If you can do one in 15 that gives you 15 minutes of faffing about. And if you walk a 12 minute mile, that's a whopping 24 minutes of just chilling with your friends on the trail.

24 miles in a day is very reasonable.
Just an FYI, the average human walks about 3.1 mph, but that is flat even terrain. Most hikers go about 2 mph (For Hikers in...).
 

dave2008

Legend
The source is Vegitius, an expert on Roman military organization who wrote De Re Militari in the 4th century.

"They should march with the common military step twenty miles in five summer-hours, and with the full step, which is quicker, twenty-four miles in the same number of hours."

I trust the source.
I wouldn't. It is likely exaggerated, like many ancient historical "facts," though Romans were good with roads ;)
 

Reynard

Legend
Thats a modern continuous hike, that doesn’t account for rest stops, scouting, setting camp or random encounters (Ie its a forced march)
\
That's what the other 8 hours of the day are for that the party isn't sleeping. 24 miles in an 8 hour day on clear terrain is not onerous. What should be noted is that anything besides clear paths can severely slow you down, even "open" fields if the grass and weeds are tall.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Darn, another thing I didn't put in the survey: @Morrus, is it too late to request Regions like Shadowed Lands (sort of like the Feywoods, but for Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow), Jungle, or Fen (along with the River I did remember to include)? I think these four are different enough from the Regions you already have to warrant inclusion.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
That’s deception though not stealth.
It's definitely something yes, but fitting it to deception is almost as bad as fitting it to stealth & it doesn't often have much to do with being charismatic or dexterous. That kind of overt social engineering is more about looking the part & proactively cloaking yourself in SEP with the way you dress & who you appear to be avoids the need to switch gears to deception when the authorities show up.

This kind of stuff is often technical(dirty or hazardous trades, computers/arcana/etc) because it makes the eyes glaze over & interest wane but other times just looking too unimportant to care about works just as well.
at least the 3.5 & 5e bluff/deception
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focus largely about telling a lie after being caught or hiding the truth rather than doing something proactive (probably int wis or both) to overtly & brazenly just seem to be something else making it kinda fall into a weird limbo where the skills don't really fit so it's often unconsidered since it doesn't really fit disguise well either.

This guy probably had to talk to someone to walk out with 75,000$ but this guy just walked in with a dolly hat& shirt to leave with a bunch of beer from several stores.
 


Steampunkette

Shaper of Worlds
Supporter
Combine it into a series of checks.

Deception or Disguise kit to disguise yourselves.
Stealth to hide your weapons and armor in the cart with the food/hay/whatever.
Passive Performance to look like you belong at a distance.
Active Deception if someone is talking to you and trying to look into the back of the cart.
 

Horwath

Hero
About stealth.

I would like to see stealth being usable at normal pace, but at a disadvantage.
It gives chance for trained characters to have a chance of being stealthy.
 

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